Mark Bass Reliability

[Lowtown]

"Not trustworthy" is a very odd way of looking at it, and it is by some (to me) unclear, maybe arbitrary criteria you have chosen.
Reliability for many kinds of electronical products follow a so called "bathtub curve"; where risk of failure is relatively high when the unit is put into use, mirroring the footend of the tub and the steep wall. If the product survives this initial time, risk of failure drops dramatically to a very low level, where it remains virtually flat for a long time (bottom of the tub). After years (even decades) of stable, low risk, the probability of failure will start rising in a more gentle way, like the backrest of the tub.
Your amp had a (rare) early failure, when repaired it is as gig worthy as the next amp from the same range. I have not seen that Markbass had issues with short life due to errors in design or execution, unlike ie Ampeg, where some members have had multiple units failing at different occasions, in spite of Ampeg doing board revision after board revision.

That said, my MII LMII (bought new in 2009?), has been reliable through many gigs, rehearsals and lots of home use. After a decade or so, there has been the occasional reluctance to close the speaker output relay (I think), but restarting the amp or turning the up volume high will make the contact close. Changing the relay is fairly straightforward, but in the meantime I bought a Markbass Ninja 1000 for gigging. No early failures in that amp either.

Oh, and the brand is "Markbass", nothing else.

Are saying that failure when new is correlated to quality?

I bet you wouldn't think that when you are preparing for a gig with a new amp that has just broken.

 

[AlexanderB]

Are saying that failure when new is correlated to quality?

I bet you wouldn't think that when you are preparing for a gig with a new amp that has just broken.

As I say, risk of failure IS higher when the amp is brand new, and then it drops. Many gigging musicians mitigate that risk by having a backup, in the same way that is done in other business, where service must not stop. In avionics, trains, production industries, wilderness exploration, health care and so on, having backups has proven the best solution for almost (!) every type of equipment. And that is after decades of research in reliabilty and improvements in manufacturing consistency.
Multiple engines and double redundant systems in aircrafts, multiple, smaller lifts and multiple fire escapes in large buildings, two circuit brakes in the car, a spare tire, "limp home mode" in your car's electronic system for some kinds of malfunctions and so on.

 

[Lowtown]

As I say, risk of failure IS higher when the amp is brand new, and then it drops. Many gigging musicians mitigate that risk by having a backup, in the same way that is done in other business, where service must not stop. In avionics, trains, production industries, wilderness exploration, health care and so on, having backups has proven the best solution for almost (!) every type of equipment. And that is after decades of research in reliabilty and improvements in manufacturing consistency.
Multiple engines and double redundant systems in aircrafts, multiple, smaller lifts and multiple fire escapes in large buildings, two circuit brakes in the car, a spare tire, "limp home mode" in your car's electronic system for some kinds of malfunctions and so on.

That the risk of failure is higher then drops, is not the issue - this is irrelevant.

What matters is: does early failure indicate a greater chance of future failure (compared to a situation of non-early failure)?

This is all that matters.

 

[Lowtown]

As I say, risk of failure IS higher when the amp is brand new, and then it drops. Many gigging musicians mitigate that risk by having a backup, in the same way that is done in other business, where service must not stop. In avionics, trains, production industries, wilderness exploration, health care and so on, having backups has proven the best solution for almost (!) every type of equipment. And that is after decades of research in reliabilty and improvements in manufacturing consistency.
Multiple engines and double redundant systems in aircrafts, multiple, smaller lifts and multiple fire escapes in large buildings, two circuit brakes in the car, a spare tire, "limp home mode" in your car's electronic system for some kinds of malfunctions and so on.

......and you got the reference wrong.

The bathtub relates to a population of products.........the Little Mark 3 is well into the flat part of the curve.

 

[AlexanderB]

......and you got the reference wrong.

The bathtub relates to a population of products.........the Little Mark 3 is well into the flat part of the curve.

I have a decent understanding of the topic... It was you that said "new". I have nothing to prove, and no skin in this game, just tried to inform you about failure characteristics.

 

[Lowtown]

I have a decent understanding of the topic... It was you that said "new". I have nothing to prove, and no skin in this game, just tried to inform you about failure characteristics.

I don't think you do have a decent understanding.

The fundamentals of the bathtub curve states that the current LM3 product is very much at the flat part of the curve

 

[Lowtown]

I have a decent understanding of the topic... It was you that said "new". I have nothing to prove, and no skin in this game, just tried to inform you about failure characteristics.

Even if you were correct, it is still irrelevant.

What matters is the risk of future failure given early failure.

 

[AlexanderB]

That the risk of failure is higher then drops, is not the issue - this is irrelevant.

What matters is: does early failure indicate a greater chance of future failure (compared to a situation of non-early failure)?

This is all that matters.

From an engineering point of view, you are veering into word salad territory...
Early failure? Test/"burn in" (or start using, with a backup) until you reach beyond the worst part. Common practice.
The total reliability is an extremely wide concept, but I do not think Markbass amplification scores any worse than most other brands.
Their support strategy might be a problem in USA. I know some Markbass users, but none of them had to do any repairs, so I have no data on support in Sweden.

 

[Lowtown]

From an engineering point of view, you are veering into word salad territory...
Early failure? Test/"burn in" (or start using, with a backup) until you reach beyond the worst part. Common practice.
The total reliability is an extremely wide concept, but I do not think Markbass amplification scores any worse than most other brands.
Their support strategy might be a problem in USA. I know some Markbass users, but none of them had to do any repairs, so I have no data on support in Sweden.

It isn't word salad at all - it is basic statistics.

Your are talking about the probability of an event - I am talking about the probability of an event, given another event.

These are two very different concepts - no grey area at all.

 

[AlexanderB]

I don't think you do have a decent understanding.

The fundamentals of the bathtub curve states that the current LM3 product is very much at the flat part of the curve

Yikes... Do some reading! Reliability calculations does not apply to a "product" (LMIII), but to a SPECIMEN! ONE CAR, ONE AMP, ONE PHONE...
If your amp is new, it will start its path along the combined setup of models the total UNIT is characterised by.

 

[Lowtown]

Yikes... Do some reading! Reliability calculations does not apply to a "product" (LMIII), but to a SPECIMEN! ONE CAR, ONE AMP, ONE PHONE...
If your amp is new, it will start its path along the combined setup of models the total UNIT is characterised by.

Well, of course they apply to a specimen - it is irrational to measure a population.

Again, even if you are right......it is irrelevant.

I am talking about the probability of future failure given past failure

 

[Lowtown]

Yikes... Do some reading! Reliability calculations does not apply to a "product" (LMIII), but to a SPECIMEN! ONE CAR, ONE AMP, ONE PHONE...
If your amp is new, it will start its path along the combined setup of models the total UNIT is characterised by.

If you want to talk about a single product: given the maturity of the LM3 product, the probability of early failure should be very very low.

Mature, well known product, no moving parts........the early failure rate should be tiny.

.........but like I said, this is not the issue......the issue is future failure.

 

[bigtone23]

I have a '11 Italian made CMD121P combo from the LMII era. It's had an easy life and is starting to blow fuses at home volume, playing it at approximately 20-40% of it's capability. This has happened twice in the last month, which makes me lose confidence in the amp.

 

[Lowtown]

I have a '11 Italian made CMD121P combo from the LMII era. It's had an easy life and is starting to blow fuses at home volume, playing it at approximately 20-40% of it's capability. This has happened twice in the last month, which makes me lose confidence in the amp.

Well according to Mr Meatballs, you shouldn't worry - according to Meatballs, failure now is irrelevant to failure in the future.

 

[elgecko]

I've had three failures in 14 years of older, Italian-made units. I can say Markbass is unreliable without hesitation!

R.I.P Markbass CMD121P...3rd time (good riddance!)

 

[Nashrakh]

Interesting to see how different our experiences can be. I've been playing Markbass for years (a CMD121 combo and a Little Mark Tube 800 plus 4x10 cab) and the only thing that ever broke on me was their Compressore pedal. Faulty switch. Sent it back to get it fixed, works like a charm now.

If you live in Europe as I do, that changes your perspective on repairs. It's easy to come by a Markbass approved technician around here, so that definitely helps.

 

[SJan3]

That the risk of failure is higher then drops, is not the issue - this is irrelevant.

What matters is: does early failure indicate a greater chance of future failure (compared to a situation of non-early failure)?

This is all that matters.

The answer is "no". If a failure is properly repaired you're back to square one regarding probable reliability. In fact, if the repair tech is thorough and provides a comprehensive inspection of the unit, an argument can be made for higher predicted reliability of that particular unit, not unlike an additional QC inspection.

 

[SJan3]

I have a '11 Italian made CMD121P combo from the LMII era. It's had an easy life and is starting to blow fuses at home volume, playing it at approximately 20-40% of it's capability. This has happened twice in the last month, which makes me lose confidence in the amp.

Sure, I'd lose confidence in my truck if it had a mechanical issue...until properly repaired.
Things wear out over time. Your amp is 11 years old. Not bad at all and possibly fixable which will likely extend it's useful life, just like my truck.

 

[oren]

The only problem I’ve had with my MB CMD-121P was the woofer needed replacing after I abused it one time (or a few) too many.

Earlier in this thread it was asserted that there’s only one place in the US that can service Mark Bass gear. That’s not actually correct - there is only one authorized center for warranty repairs, but there are quite a few authorized repair shops for non-warranty service. I had my woofer replaced by the good folks at Inner Sound near Portland, and it’s worked great since.

The list of service centers is here: Mark Bass Repair Service Center, Mark Acoustic Repair Service Center

 

[selowitch]

I have three Markbass amps and one Markbass external cab, all made in Italy, all over ten years old and none of them have ever needed repair.