Mark Sandman Stings for Slide on Bass

[aliveinvain]

Hello all, I am having someone make me a two string bass for a Mark Sandman type of bass.

I was wondering what gauge of string should I use? I head he used the A and D sting.

Since I will be playing with a slide primarily I was wondering also what type of string anyone would recomend

Thanks!

C.

 

[Passinwind]

Hello all, I am having someone make me a two string bass for a Mark Sandman type of bass.

I was wondering what gauge of string should I use? I head he used the A and D sting.

Since I will be playing with a slide primarily I was wondering also what type of string anyone would recomend

Thanks!

C.

I've been playing slide bass since the early 1970s. I just use a regular 4-string fretless with my standard setup for regular playing (light to medium gauges, medium to medium-low action), and half rounds or pressurewounds have always worked best for me. Right now I'm using SIT Silencers in .045-.100 gauges.

I guess you probably meant what kind of slide in your second paragraph? I like some similar to a lap steel bar, and as usual, I'm all about DIY solutions:

The indentations help me grip the bar, something like so:

You can buy bar stock cut to length at Onlinemetals.com, free machine brass (360 alloy) is the easiest to work with and works well IME. First and third in the pic are brass, second one is silicon aluminum bronze (642 alloy), last is a Dunlop lap bar in chromed steel. The bronze one is my favorite, but hand working it was quite tedious.


@Fat Freddy is currently building a dedicated bass for slide, so I'm pinging him into this thread as well. Good luck, and have fun!

 

[aliveinvain]

Thanks so much! Do you have a link to the strings you mentioned?

 

[Passinwind]

Thanks so much! Do you have a link to the strings you mentioned?

NRL45100L

GHS Pressurewounds worked really well for me too, I was using the lightest set.

On my other fretless I currently am trying DR Sunbeams, which are brighter and more aggressive, but not as good a compromise for the other things I use my basses for.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Hello all, I am having someone make me a two string bass for a Mark Sandman type of bass.

I was wondering what gauge of string should I use? I head he used the A and D sting.

Since I will be playing with a slide primarily I was wondering also what type of string anyone would recomend

Thanks!

C.

IIRC he'd use typical topmost two bass string gauges, tuned to D (bottom) and A (top), but sometimes C and G, and occasionally other tunings; and put the two strings in the middle (bass A and D) positions.

If you do a forum search - 'titles only' box ticked - for "sandman" and then "morphine", a number of results will come up.
My suggestion is to get two flatwound, D'Addario guitar Chrome single strings. They're cheap, sound bright, are very smooth (for clean slide operation), long enough for even long-scale basses (with toploading bridges and 2+2 headstocks) and only need a used bass ball-end or a washer for them to stay put at the bridge; 065+045 or 056+038 is what I'd get.
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[Paging @ihixulu.]

 

[aliveinvain]

Thanks so much! I really appreciate it!

 

[Passinwind]

My suggestion is to get two flatwound, D'Addario guitar Chrome single strings. They're cheap, sound bright, are very smooth (for clean slide operation)

IME really smooth can be less desirable if you want to use the slide like a bow sometimes, i.e. in your picking hand. That's my favorite mode actually. Neither T-I Jazz Flats or EB Cobalt Flats quite worked for me, FWIW. But I've been doing the slide thing since well before MS came on the scene, and I've never really studied his technique or gear, or even listened to a lot of his music. Could be a fun rabbit hole right now though, I reckon.

 

[HaphAsSard]

IME really smooth can be less desirable if you want to use the slide like a bow sometimes, in your picking hand. That's my favorite mode, actually. Neither T-I Jazz Flats or EB Cobalt Flats quite worked for me, FWIW. That's my favorite mode, actually.

Yeah, but what is actually your favorite mode?

J/K, input from one who's actually done the thing is most welcome.

 

[Passinwind]

Yeah, but what is actually your favorite mode?

Typos, of course. I lost a bit of love for TB when the editing window was tightened up so radically, but so it goes...

 

[HaphAsSard]

I lost a bit of love for TB when the editing window was tightened up so radically, but so it goes...

Tell me about it. I get so ashamed of grammar mistakes I didn't catch in time...
[And when I've forgotten something. I hate not being able to be as boringly thorough (borough?) as I possibly can.]

 

[ihixulu]

You rang? @HaphAsSard speaks truth

I modded a short scale SX jazz specifically to play Morphine tunes. took off the outer two tuners, installed a high nut, routed in two P pickups in vvt configuration. Will probably mess with that in the near future. Or not...

I experimented with a bunch of slides and went with what was most comfortable for me to use - Dunlop heavy pyrex. Lighter slides just bounce off the strings. Metal slides never agreed with my hands for some reason.

As far as strings, I use D'Addario flat wound guitar strings. Bass strings of any sort just didn't sound Sandman-ish enough. I think I'm using .53 for the D and .35 for the A right now. I'll check if you want exact ##s.

I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that Sandman was an intuitive gearhead, not an engineer per se. He tinkered and experimented with stuff constantly to get to sounds he liked. He remains an inspiration.

 

[aliveinvain]

Thanks! Well said. Like Sandman I am not an engineer. I like to tinker alot. I think it will take time and patience to get the sound dialed in. What do you have for amp head and cab?

Please do get me the exact gauges for the D'addario strings! Can you link me those? Plz.

Thanks!

 

[40Hz]

Mark Sandman often referred to his bass as “an experiment progress.” He made several changes to the one most people have seen. And he also had more than one slide bass. So don’t be afraid to do some experiments of your own.



He was also all about feel and style. And how his instrument slotted into his band’s mix. So don’t get too hung up on his bass. A lot of the Mark Sandman sound came from the combination of his voice plus his bass plus the baritone sax in Morphine and how it all blended in with and supported the vibe and subject matter of their songs.

Mark Sandman and Morphine were one of those “total experience” bands. You can’t isolate the elements and get the same thing going. It’s the synergy of all their parts that constitute the Mark Sandman sound.

 

[vvvmmm]

Huh.

I have a bad Rickie copy from the 70's with a nut-riser, the A and G strings on it from the 80's tuned C-G and sometimes, and I play it with a heavy Dunlop brass or chrome spark-plug-socket slides. The slides sound different, and the socket being heavier is somewhat easier but mebbe slower.

I also have a Cort headless with the E, A and G strings on it, tuned D-A-X-D, played the same way.

I have read that Sandman, starting out with "low guitar" in Treat Her Right, evolved to the 2 string bass using inexpensive instruments, and changed stuff around based on what he had laying around. (The famous bass thread going on has a pic of he and his Kingston bass: Favorite famous bassist’s bass.)

I agree, don't get hung on the gear.

 

[mexicanyella]

I loved Morphine and saw them once live and agree with what was said above: their mojo was a cumulative, additive thing. The whole was greater than the sum of the parts. But what a fantastic, fine-tuned-sounding ensemble!

I try to play lap steel and use a Dobro-type Stevens bar, but as a backup I have a wrist pin out of a International-Harvester 345 V8. Its inside diameter is too tight for comfort on my sausage-like fingers—not an issue for overhand lap-style—but might work for some people. The polished outside surface is great and it has sufficient mass to do the job. Got any engine shop connections?

 

[BassBrass]

Sandman's bass sound was gorgeous, rich and woody, full of mid tones,... it wasn't all style, it was trial & error like science. I'd say his tone is what I noticed first. Dana Colley's baritone added to the wood tone (a reed)

 

[markjazzbassist]

Watching the mark sandman documentary on Netflix. It’s worth a watch

 

[ronin614]

Check out Ryan Madora.

 

[burpgun]

Mark Sandman often referred to his bass as “an experiment progress.” He made several changes to the one most people have seen. And he also had more than one slide bass. So don’t be afraid to do some experiments of your own.



He was also all about feel and style. And how his instrument slotted into his band’s mix. So don’t get too hung up on his bass. A lot of the Mark Sandman sound came from the combination of his voice plus his bass plus the baritone sax in Morphine and how it all blended in with and supported the vibe and subject matter of their songs.

Mark Sandman and Morphine were one of those “total experience” bands. You can’t isolate the elements and get the same thing going. It’s the synergy of all their parts that constitute the Mark Sandman sound.

Man, Morphine were a great band. I feel fortunate I got to see them play in small Baltimore club sometime after maybe the first or second album came out. They sounded excellent. If there was anything working against them, their setup might have been just a little too limited to carry them beyond a few albums. But even so, I can't think of anyone like them, and it was cool to see someone rethink the bass like that and move it to the center of a band's sound. And Sandman died with his boots on, playing on stage in Italy!

 

[40Hz]

Man, Morphine were a great band. I feel fortunate I got to see them play in small Baltimore club sometime after maybe the first or second album came out. They sounded excellent. If there was anything working against them, their setup might have been just a little too limited to carry them beyond a few albums. But even so, I can't think of anyone like them, and it was cool to see someone rethink the bass like that and move it to the center of a band's sound. And Sandman died with his boots on, playing on stage in Italy!

I agree. The music was unique and highly original. But Mark Sandman's brooding voice and laconic persona was the real show and what people came for. Cabaret at its finest. One of the toughest things in the world to pull off if your name isn’t Amanda Palmer, Jacques Brell or Leonard Cohen IMO.

I’ll agree their music would have needed to evolve over time to stay fresh since it was so distinctive. But Morphine, in its original conformation, was so minimalist already that they could have taken it in any direction and still made it work beautifully. The creativity, talent, and innate musicality was definitely there. My big regret was we’ll never get to hear what that band could have become over time. We only got to read the opening chapters.

But man! Talk about some killer opening chapters, huh?