Mark Sandman Stings for Slide on Bass

[fermata]

For slide bass, I think rounds (or Pressurewounds) work better than flats; they seem to vibrate more freely, giving a livelier feel, and they offer a bit of inherent grit that suits the slide vibe.

Using a glass slide keeps things clean-sounding; for more grease, go with a metal one. (You can even repurpose a socket wrench.)

As for which two strings, A, D, or G are best--but tuned in fifths, so you get a power chord (well, double-stop) with the slide flat across both strings (A-E, D-A, G-D, that sort of thing).

And while it's certainly possible to play slide bass on a four-string, the reason Sandman took off two strings was because the extra ones got in the way, according to an interview with him I heard back in the day. Plus, a high action set-up prevents the slide from hitting the fret edges.

It's not too hard to build a slide bass using cigar box guitar building principles, or by modifying a pawn shop find. C.B. Gitty offers a kit: The "G-Bass" 2-string DIY Electric Bass Guitar Kit. And there are also builders, like Krappyguitars and ATLANSIA. I've seen pictures of two-string Sandbergs, too.

 

[Passinwind]

Thanks! Well said. Like Sandman I am not an engineer. I like to tinker alot. I think it will take time and patience to get the sound dialed in. What do you have for amp head and cab?

I build my own, of course...

I generally start with a very clean FRFR type approach. But a clean/dirty rig with a tube dirty side is currently in the works. I'm going to make some time to listen to Morphine cuts today so I can hopefully do a little better on spitballing ideas for those of you who have Mark Sandman's specific sound and vibe in mind.

 

[TN WOODMAN]

I loved Morphine and saw them once live and agree with what was said above: their mojo was a cumulative, additive thing. The whole was greater than the sum of the parts. But what a fantastic, fine-tuned-sounding ensemble!

I try to play lap steel and use a Dobro-type Stevens bar, but as a backup I have a wrist pin out of a International-Harvester 345 V8. Its inside diameter is too tight for comfort on my sausage-like fingers—not an issue for overhand lap-style—but might work for some people. The polished outside surface is great and it has sufficient mass to do the job. Got any engine shop connections?

Props to the International Harvester connection. My 2nd vehicle was a ‘67 Scout in ‘74. Wish I still had it. Before and after my dad had 2 pickups , the first a 1/2 ton and the second a 3/4 ton but I can’t recall years. Great pieces of machinery. Tough as nails. Slide on.

 

[40Hz]

Check out Ryan Madora.

He!s got a nice dark bluesy tone happening there. Something about it (to me) is vaguely reminiscent of the vibe Depeche Mode got going in their song Personal Jesus.

 

[40Hz]

It's not too hard to build a slide bass using cigar box guitar building principles, or by modifying a pawn shop find. C.B. Gitty offers a kit: The "G-Bass" 2-string DIY Electric Bass Guitar Kit. And there are also builders, like Krappyguitars and ATLANSIA. I've seen pictures of two-string Sandbergs, too.

The cigar box crowd has been doing up weird and hybrid basses for ages.

This one has three bass strings and three guitar strings and has them split like a Ric so you can route to a bass and a guitar amp.



Then there’s Chickenbone John over in the UK who’s one of the better known builder/performer/instructors in the CBG world:

 

[Music Man Dan]

I agree. The music was unique and highly original. But Mark Sandman's brooding voice and laconic persona was the real show and what people came for. Cabaret at its finest. One of the toughest things in the world to pull off if your name isn’t Amanda Palmer, Jacques Brell or Leonard Cohen IMO.

I’ll agree their music would have needed to evolve over time to stay fresh since it was so distinctive. But Morphine, in its original conformation, was so minimalist already that they could have taken it in any direction and still made it work beautifully. The creativity, talent, and innate musicality was definitely there. My big regret was we’ll never get to hear what that band could have become over time. We only got to read the opening chapters.

But man! Talk about some killer opening chapters, huh?

Very well said!! Morphine completely blew me away with their originality when their first album came out. I was living in downtown Chicago at the time and frequented the smaller clubs to hear the up and coming bands of the day. One of those up and coming bands was Morphine. I saw them a second time about a year later at a larger venue in Chicago. Both concerts, weather the venue was small or large, were incredible. The band carried the evening well, both performances are still among my all-time favorite concerts.

A must watch!!
The Mark Sandman Story; Cure For Pain

I've messed around at one point trying to get the feel of what Mark Sandman was discovering with the bass. I hope the OP has fun discovering the creativity and technique to making some incredible music.

 

[aliveinvain]

I build my own, of course...View attachment 3765891

I generally start with a very clean FRFR type approach. But a clean/dirty rig with a tube dirty side is currently in the works. I'm going to make some time to listen to Morphine cuts today so I can hopefully do a little better on spitballing ideas for those of you who have Mark Sandman's specific sound and vibe in mind.

That sounds awesome!

 

[aliveinvain]

Very well said!! Morphine completely blew me away with their originality when their first album came out. I was living in downtown Chicago at the time and frequented the smaller clubs to hear the up and coming bands of the day. One of those up and coming bands was Morphine. I saw them a second time about a year later at a larger venue in Chicago. Both concerts, weather the venue was small or large, were incredible. The band carried the evening well, both performances are still among my all-time favorite concerts.

A must watch!!
The Mark Sandman Story; Cure For Pain

I've messed around at one point trying to get the feel of what Mark Sandman was discovering with the bass. I hope the OP has fun discovering the creativity and technique to making some incredible music.

I've seen both documentaries about Morphine and Mark. I cannot wait to have this project on it's feet and discover what I can do to find my own sound with these parameters.

 

[Passinwind]

That sounds awesome!

Here's the clean side, minus the optional second 115 cab:

I'm contemplating throwing a pair of 4" drivers into the second 115 for the dirty side. Have a good bit of parts stashed for a 120 watt tube amp build, but still haven't finalized the preamp section specs just yet.

BTW, that bass was a gift from a luthier friend and he optimized the pickup winds for slide duty after having heard my old Travis Bean and my current #2 fretless a few times over at his shop. I installed a 4 pin XLR output when I put the preamp in and am only using two conductors at the moment, so something similar to Ric-O-Sound would be an easy mod.

 

[aliveinvain]

For slide bass, I think rounds (or Pressurewounds) work better than flats; they seem to vibrate more freely, giving a livelier feel, and they offer a bit of inherent grit that suits the slide vibe.

Using a glass slide keeps things clean-sounding; for more grease, go with a metal one. (You can even repurpose a socket wrench.)

As for which two strings, A, D, or G are best--but tuned in fifths, so you get a power chord (well, double-stop) with the slide flat across both strings (A-E, D-A, G-D, that sort of thing).

And while it's certainly possible to play slide bass on a four-string, the reason Sandman took off two strings was because the extra ones got in the way, according to an interview with him I heard back in the day. Plus, a high action set-up prevents the slide from hitting the fret edges.

It's not too hard to build a slide bass using cigar box guitar building principles, or by modifying a pawn shop find. C.B. Gitty offers a kit: The "G-Bass" 2-string DIY Electric Bass Guitar Kit. And there are also builders, like Krappyguitars and ATLANSIA. I've seen pictures of two-string Sandbergs, too.

It's actually Krappy Guitars that is making my sandman like bass!

 

[aliveinvain]

Here's the clean side, minus the optional second 115 cab:

View attachment 3766134

I'm contemplating throwing a pair of 4" drivers into the second 115 for the dirty side. Have a good bit of parts stashed for a 120 watt tube amp build, but still haven't finalized the preamp section specs just yet.

BTW, that bass was a gift from a luthier friend and he optimized the pickup winds for slide duty after having heard my old Travis Bean and my current #2 fretless a few times over at his shop. I installed a 4 pin XLR output when I put the preamp in and am only using two conductors at the moment, so something similar to Ric-O-Sound would be an easy mod. View attachment 3766143

This looks awesome!

 

[Wood and Wire]

Watching the mark sandman documentary on Netflix. It’s worth a watch

What's it called?

I'll have to see if it's available on UK Netflix.

 

[Passinwind]

This looks awesome!

Thanks, it's been a fun ride for sure. There are build threads on the earlier DIY amps, but I just kind of tucked a few posts on this one into one of those rather than do a new one. It's fairly similar to the 800-ish watt amps from Mesa, Genzler, etc. Nothing for sale, just a fun diversion and a way to keep building my tech chops.

 

[aliveinvain]

Ok so what about pickups?

These are the two I am eyeing:

Seymour Duncan SPB-3 Quarter Pound P-Bass Pickup - Black

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Passinwind]

Ok so what about pickups?

These are the two I am eyeing:

Seymour Duncan SPB-3 Quarter Pound P-Bass Pickup - Black

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I could see a split pickup being really cool for a two string bass. But I'm totally the wrong guy to ask about P pickups!

 

[Wood and Wire]

I thought they were already branching out, and expanding their sound in interesting ways :



Such a shame we never got to hear where it might lead (I had tickets for the London show, a couple of days after that fateful night in Italy).

 

[markjazzbassist]

What's it called?

I'll have to see if it's available on UK Netflix.

 

[ihixulu]

Thanks! Well said. Like Sandman I am not an engineer. I like to tinker alot. I think it will take time and patience to get the sound dialed in. What do you have for amp head and cab?

Please do get me the exact gauges for the D'addario strings! Can you link me those? Plz.

Thanks!

Turns out I had misremembered the gauges. My brain is shot

It's a .075 for the D (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OR4UFK)

and

a .035 for the A (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OR4UB4)

Amp wise I was pretty much all SWR until recently. SM400 into 410, or Bassic Black combo for smaller rooms. Tweeter off, treble down. I use an Arkham Zephyr pre into a Crown power amp now. Main cab is an SWR SOB (115) loaded with a Kappalite. Honestly, as long as you can control the gank that you get from the slide pretty much any amp will do. If you're going to be a purist, get an SVT. I'm not a purist. In my experience though, the right strings will go a looooong way to get the sound.

A few years ago my band performed the Cure for Pain album. Here's link to a folder with videos from the show: Link Removed sound quality is a bit meh but you get the idea

At the time I was using just a Hofner style pickup in the jazz neck position. The amp is the Bassic Black.

 

[Wood and Wire]

Of course. Cheers!

No, it's not on UK Netflix, but I've seen that on YouTube.

Apparently there's another documentary about Morphine, but I'm too forgetful / lazyass to look it up.

 

[aliveinvain]

Just got this progress pic! (i'm a lefty)