If your truss rod is set properly it shouldn't be an issue. If it's a thinner neck tho, I totally understand. I'd be more worried having 2 strings in standard, and 2 tuned down that much. That's probably not good for your neck over time.
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MarkBass Vintage Series Flats
- Thread starter Frovan
- Start date
The Fender 9050L are awesome on G&L L2000s and much more flexible than LaBellas.
The LaBellas are awesome on Gretsch G2220.
And I really like EB Cobalt flats on my EHB1005SMS.
You didn't mention which bass you have. I switched a lot of flats between basses. From my experience the above combinations are great.
But they weren't that great on other basses.
So my 2 cents are:
Besides the taste on how flexible they should be - it mainly depends on which strings you combine with which bass. And I fear this is what you need to find out yourself.
The LaBellas are awesome on Gretsch G2220.
And I really like EB Cobalt flats on my EHB1005SMS.
You didn't mention which bass you have. I switched a lot of flats between basses. From my experience the above combinations are great.
But they weren't that great on other basses.
So my 2 cents are:
Besides the taste on how flexible they should be - it mainly depends on which strings you combine with which bass. And I fear this is what you need to find out yourself.
Yes, I see what you mean. Fender don't publish tension charts but if they are anything like GHS or D'Addario, then E will be 41-43lbs, A 57lbs or more, D 62-65lbs and G 69lbs or more. So not exactly balanced. I wonder how much less tension will those D and G have if downtuned a whole octave.
Yeah, well, the Fenders are def less tension than Chromes, but there aren't Chromes in that gauge so it's tough to say. I bet if you call Fender or D'addario (they make Fender flats) they probably have the tension info.
I'd guess they'd be very floppy tuned down that much.
Yeah, I agree. I see why you're thinking about doing this, but keep in mind that the strings weren't designed to perform a full octave down. I think it'll feel like playing elastic bands, which won't feel great alongside the tension of the E and A. Further, the idea of having one half at full weight pull and the other not has me concerned about bending the neck over time, which was also designed to take full tension across all strings.
I feel like necks should be able to handle the weight of the Fender flats. There's a bit of (well earned) folklore around necks not taking flats well, but unless you have a real vintage instrument with real vintage considerations I wouldn't be too concerned. Don't be afraid to adjust that truss rod. (Disclaimer: just my thoughts!)
Quite possibly. I'll try though when they arrive. In the meanwhile I just send Fender an email inquiring for tension info for this set. Let's see if they reply.
Edit: They quickly replied, that they "do not have strings tensions listed". Well, we knew that already.
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That's what I was getting at. That sounds like a recipe for twisting the neck.
Some necks can handle high tension better than others. There's a lot of factors that go into that tho, so there's not a one size fits all answer to that question.
@Nerve
D'Addario most probably do have it but I doubt they'll disclose it, especially given that it's nowhere officially stated that they manufacture strings for Fender.
Be that as it may, it is a 2008 Am.Std. Pbass with graphite neck reinforcement, so it should be able to handle the tension. Hopefully.
Yeah, that's why I suggested calling because sometimes people will say more over the phone.
Oh yeah, you won't have any problems with that.
Hard or soft, any string that is tuned an octave lower than a given pitch ends up with exactly 1/4 of the initial tension: in this case, 16.25 - 17 lbs (you can simulate the effect by tuning your existing D down to low E): a stiff, flatwound string would get a little too hard to control at that tension. As said above, also not a good idea to have a super floppy half-set at one side of the neck, a normal one at the other.
Yes, that would be indeed too low tension for half of the strings and not good for overall tension balance. But how exactly does it work out to be ¼ of tension if a string is tuned one octave lower?
Physics.
The tension formula - as given, on page 3 of the classic D'Addario Tension Chart .pdf, but you'll find it everywhere the topic is touched upon - adjusted for pounds and inches, is as follows:
T = [UW x (2 x L x F)²] / 386.4
where T=tension in pounds; UW="unit weight"=mass of a linear inch of string, also expressed in (decimal) pounds; L=scale length in inches; F=frequency in Hertz (a reference table of notes and frequencies is provided on page 4 of the same file).
Let's take, by way of example, the very first string in the chart, i.e. the plain steel guitar string PL007 (.007"), at the start of page 5.
Its unit weight is .00001085 pounds; if we're curious about its tension on a standard (25.5" scale) guitar when tuned to A4 (tuning fork A, or 440Hz), which it can do albeit not for very long (it's a very thin string and the pitch is pretty high for it at guitar scale), we can determine it even if it's not included in the chart, by using the aforegiven formula:
[.00001085 x (2 x 25.5 x 440)²] / 386.4 = 14.13963913043478 pounds of tension.
Now, let's try and halve the frequency value, in order to know the tension at A3 (an octave lower):
[.00001085 x (2 x 25.5 x 220)²] / 386.4 = 3.534909782608696 pounds. Which is, QED, one quarter of the tension one octave above.
Note that this value is included in the chart (rounded to the nearest decimal, i.e. 3.5). Also included in the chart, the tension values at G4 -11.2- and at G3 -2.8- which are, again, one quadruple of the other.
You can repeat the procedure for whatever string in the D'Addario chart, at whatever scale length, with whatever frequency and its lower octave.
So, as we've seen, tension quadruples for every octave increase, scale and mass being equal.
By the way, tension doubles for every half-octave increase: everywhere in the chart, you'll see that the tension of a random string at F is double (or half) its tension at B. You can play with the formula and verify this holds true for any two notes a tritone apart. Which is useful if a tension chart is not chromatic: if you want to know the tension at Bb of a string, just look up its tension at E, and double it or halve it depending on which E we're talking about.
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Thank you for the literally scientific explanation. I think I can follow the application of the tension formula. I was good at physics at school, which (physics) helped me understand the world better. Well, part of it for I went on to study other things later (political philosophy, art history etc.). So an octave drop dramatically decreases tension and in my case, namely the Fender 9050M or any string set for that matter, it makes it impractical.
After removing the LaBella 760FS from my Pbass, which set has normal, for flats, tension, I installed a custom Dunlop 50-70-85-105 set and everything was fine. Dunlops are low tension methinks, it also says so on the tin. But I removed these too because I find them rather hollow sounding, without substance. Yesterday I put on a custom Pyramid Gold set, also 50-70-85-105. Very different character in terms of tone, also considerably higher tension than the Dunlop, or so it feels. No problems with the neck of my Pbass, looks solid. Don't know how the 9050M (55-70-90-105) are in terms of tension, most probably even higher than the Pyramid but perhaps not by much.
