OP has a lot of common misconceptions about what makes loudness. Do some searching and reading on here about watts, power, displacements limits, SPL, etc. Just dumping more power into a speaker that already can't handle it doesn't make you any louder, in fact it can make you a lot quieter. Burned coils and ripped cones don't get loud. Keep it up and you won't be able to hear or enjoy music when you get older either.
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Maximum power
- Thread starter Back'N'Black
- Start date
I am older, already have hearing damage, mainly from being in construction. Just certain tones are muddy.
Anyway my son had a freaking loud system in his car, 1200watt amp just for the sub, big amp. Ok so in real world watts what was it? Only 600 or 300? It rattled every organ in my body I can tell you that. To do the same thing in a large room, how many watts do I need? A lot right?
bongomania
Commercial User
Dude. We've been telling you, and you're not listening. Go back and re-read all the previous posts.
Back'N',
Truefully 300 to 500 watts are more than adequate for a "LOUD" band.
The secret is to have enough speakers running for that wattage to work through.
Have you ever played through a 300 watt Ampeg SVT head into "two" SVT 810 cabinets? (That's 16 -10's running.)
It's incredible!!!
Unbelievably LOUD but still with tone.
That's why the SVT and 810 cabs have ruled the rock stages for years and years and years.
I used this set-up for a time, had some problems with the tube head, went to a G.K. 800 head, (300 watts into 4 ohms), and one of the 4 ohm SVT 810 cabs.
It was still unbelievably loud.
Never had a problem with being heard...and this was up against Marshall half stacks and Leslies and Twins on stage.
Everyone is on a power kick right now, watts are cheap to buy, but IMHO, the speakers and the number of speakers are far more important.
A head giving 300 to 500 watts into the correct ohmage, (and depending on your tastes), a 8-10's or 2-410's or 2-212's or 2-215's (and with P.A. support when needed), will cover ANY large, loud, room.
I'd be betting it'd be overkill and the soundman will be spending his evening yelling to bring down the bass...
i used to run a carvin r1000 into a swr megoliath 8x10. the only time i turned the volume up to 8 or 9 was an outdoor ampitheater with 600 people. the soundguy kept telling me to turn up so i did. then i realized i wasnt even going through the PA. naturally i wasnt happy about that, but after the show i asked some people in the back if they could hear me and the said i was loud and clear.A head giving 300 to 500 watts into the correct ohmage, (and depending on your tastes), a 8-10's or 2-410's or 2-212's or 2-215's (and with P.A. support when needed), will cover ANY large, loud, room.
I'd be betting I'd be overkill and the soundman will be spending his evening yelling to bring down the bass...
now im in a band wiht2 guitarists, one with a 50watt marshall tube half stack, and one with a 30watt tube 2x12. im playing through a carvin 500 watt amp into a carvin 8x10. the amp is turned up about 1/2 way and im plenty loud. (for practice)
I was doing a little researching today and I ran across this: in order to be twice as loud you need 10 times as much watts to acheive it. Any opinions on that? So that means my 450watt head is only twice as loud as a 45watt one?
I'm kinda stuck sideways on the add a cab situation, I have a 1200watt 410, good headroom I guess but its 4 ohm. Couldnt pass up the Behringer deal, $260 I paid for it. Sounds great, cant complain. But I guess I cant just plug in another cab now since this ones 4 ohm right? The Behringer 450watt head is rated at 4 ohm, I havent found where it says dont run two 4 ohm cab but I assume that I shouldnt. Maybe I should have saved the $260 and put it against an 810.
I'll probably back away from volume thing and start looking at PA systems. I've been married for two years and last night discovered my wife can sing practically thing, didnt know that previously
and being in my first band I have discovered good singers are hard to come by. I have heard husband/wife deals in bands are almost always a bad deal in bands. Learning as I go along...
I'm kinda stuck sideways on the add a cab situation, I have a 1200watt 410, good headroom I guess but its 4 ohm. Couldnt pass up the Behringer deal, $260 I paid for it. Sounds great, cant complain. But I guess I cant just plug in another cab now since this ones 4 ohm right? The Behringer 450watt head is rated at 4 ohm, I havent found where it says dont run two 4 ohm cab but I assume that I shouldnt. Maybe I should have saved the $260 and put it against an 810.
I'll probably back away from volume thing and start looking at PA systems. I've been married for two years and last night discovered my wife can sing practically thing, didnt know that previously
and being in my first band I have discovered good singers are hard to come by. I have heard husband/wife deals in bands are almost always a bad deal in bands. Learning as I go along...
bongomania
Commercial User
Yes, all else being equal (same input, same speaker cab, same internal gain and EQ shaping).
I'll go ahead and spit it out for you. To get maximum loudness, you want the following:
--a very efficient speaker cab, and as much speaker surface area as you can manage.
--Reduce the level of your lows, and boost the mids.
--Use compression and/or distortion (in this context they are kind of the same thing)--either naturally from cranking a tube amp, or via tone-shaping devices (preamp, pedals).
--PA support.
Lemmy gets insanely loud with 200W because he uses all of these techniques. It's up to each individual to decide which techniques will give you the best results with your preferred tone.
I was doing a little researching today and I ran across this: in order to be twice as loud you need 10 times as much watts to acheive it. Any opinions on that? So that means my 450watt head is only twice as loud as a 45watt one?
------Assuming all else is the same and the only difference being the amplifier power then yes, that's true.----
I'm kinda stuck sideways on the add a cab situation, I have a 1200watt 410, good headroom I guess but its 4 ohm. Couldnt pass up the Behringer deal, $260 I paid for it. Sounds great, cant complain. But I guess I cant just plug in another cab now since this ones 4 ohm right? The Behringer 450watt head is rated at 4 ohm, I havent found where it says dont run two 4 ohm cab but I assume that I shouldnt. Maybe I should have saved the $260 and put it against an 810.
-----Adding speakers is another way to get louder. A pair of 410's on the same amp will be a good deal louder than one of them. 4ohms is the minimum on your amp, that means one 4ohm cab or two 8ohm cabs. Could be you're having problems with boundry cancellation too. Has to do with soundwaves bouncing off walls, floor, ceiling etc. and how they meet. Wherever you're standing on stage could be a bad spot for that causing you to turn up whereas 20-30ft. out in the room you might be drowning out the band.-----
-----Don't expect your bass to sound like it does in the car, it won't. Car audio benefits from cabin gain, that's enough cone displacing enough air in a small enough space to actually change the air pressure in the listening environment (the inside of the car). To accomplish that in something the size of a small club you'd need a stadium size subwoofer rig. If you do make it work, you won't be asked back.-----
I'll probably back away from volume thing and start looking at PA systems. I've been married for two years and last night discovered my wife can sing practically thing, didnt know that previously
A medium power head and a 410 should be enough rig for most situations, if more is needed you really should be run through the PA. Times when that isn't practical or possible is when you bring your extra speaker cabinet.
Well, breaking up the quotes didn't work.......
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,045
- 45,909
- Disclosures
- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Nope, it's worse than that. Google "loudspeaker power compression" to see why.
originally posted by EricF in this thread i started a while ago:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=605014
Good answers to what contributes to volume on page 2.
i have a 200 watt head running through a 1x15 and 4x10. it's PLENTY loud at halfway to cut through guitarists running 100-150 watt heads with half stacks.
There's so much knowledge on these boards, and the OP seems to be ignoring it.
Since you need an answer, here it is:
Knowing nothing about your music or your current rig, I have determined that you need a minumum of 1000 watts and 2 810 cabs. Yep, that's the ticket.
Buy that rig, or you'll never be satisfied.
Since you need an answer, here it is:
Knowing nothing about your music or your current rig, I have determined that you need a minumum of 1000 watts and 2 810 cabs. Yep, that's the ticket.
Buy that rig, or you'll never be satisfied.
Yep, that sums it up nicely, thanks. I did spend a lot of time researching this and you are correct sir.
Not ignoring, just sorting through opinions/experience/knowledge. This has been a great thread for me and yes apparently I do need 1000 watts and 2 810's
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
- 278
- 76
- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
True. And then you have to factor in that most speakers won't take more than half their rated power before they reach the driver excursion limits, and many won't even take that much. That's why quibbling over watts verges on splitting hairs.
