Melodic minor mode? (Music theory)

[Jeff Bonny]

I agree. Also, I think you just gotta put in the seat time to figure out what's happening and why, before you can really talk about it in a meaningful way.

This seems to be overlooked by far too many people. If the kind of confusion you see regularly on this forum is any indication acquiring theory without the guidance of an experienced player causes at least as many problems as it solves. Inexperienced players trying to "apply" modes over chord changes is a classic example. Sure it works mathematically but honestly superimposing modes over chord changes has never made much sense to me musically. I was taught the Berklee modal system in my late teens but right away I realized that taking it too literally didn't always sound very good. Fortunately I had some good teachers who didn't let me loose sight of the fact it's musical theory not musical laws.

Another thing I think gets badly overlooked is that trying to learn theory from what you can hear on an instrument like the bass which functions primarily using single note lines makes it incredibly difficult to gain any real depth of practical understanding of harmony.

 

[inanimate_carb]

Most of the over-thinking and overanalyzation seen in threads like this would scare me away from the study of theory if I was a young player.

 

[AngelCrusher]

Most of the over-thinking and overanalyzation seen in threads like this would scare me away from the study of theory if I was a young player.

Agree. I have been saying this for a while in these threads. I love to learn theory and challenge myself musically, but at the end of the day it boils down to teaching your ears to hear and be able to apply these concepts in a musical and organic way.

Learning rules is vitally important to expanding vocabulary, but forgetting those rules and just playing what's inside you afterwards is equally essential.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Honestly, I really enjoy these types of discussions, because I usually end up learning something I didn't know. They do get heavy sometimes, but I guess that's the nature of the thing.

The upright forum tends to have more structured jazz theory discussions, since if you play a lot of upright, you generally are studying jazz pretty heavily. That at least gives you a framework for discussion.

It seems that when electric players who live in the rock/funk groove world try to get involved with it that it goes in somewhat complicated directions.

Textbook jazz courses are difficult because they try to quantify every single nuance of the music. They have to give a name and a reason for everything, which isn't the point at all. While it does take a lot of dedication, Jazz really isn't as hard as it looks in those books. They make it that way so that they can have something to grade, come test time.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

P.S. I hope we are not going to end this thread as "just another one bashing Music Theory".

Here is a short and lame exercise using the Ab melodic minor notes.
My question is more about the fingering.

I'm shifting for the fourth and sixth notes, also for the last triplet.

Here is my first choice of notes/fingering.
I've highlighted my left hand fingers with TAB.
I'm using a few shifts.
The fourth note - one shift, the sixth note - another shift.
In Bar2, I play the first note with my Finger 4 (it could also be Finger 3). I know it's cramped but it's the best way for me to properly articulate the next two notes (without using Finger 1 as Barre).

Here is my alternative TAB and fingering for Bar 1.
It looks like Barre with Finger 1 for the third and fourth notes. Also, the eighth note could be fretted with Finger 3.
The same possibility for the first note in Bar2.

Here is an alternative ending - Bar 4 with different TAB and fingering.
I did not want to use the 19th fret on the E string.
The alternative ending does not have that clear shifting with was, kind of, my personal "requirement" for that exercise.

Just for Entertainment purpose, I've "doubled my speed" in Bar 3. I still cannot properly articulate that bar with the 16th notes, but I will eventually.

Any other fingering ideas for that particular exercise?

Here is a sound clip from GP.
https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...4/?temp_hash=50897218fbbebb476ac6562125483ede

 

[Spin Doctor]

P.S. I hope we are not going to end this thread as "just another one bashing Music Theory".

Here is a short and lame exercise using the Ab melodic minor notes.
My question is more about the fingering.





View attachment 1149029

I'm shifting for the fourth and sixth notes, also for the last triplet.
View attachment 1149030
Here is my first choice of notes/fingering.
I've highlighted my left hand fingers with TAB.
I'm using a few shifts.
The fourth note - one shift, the sixth note - another shift.
In Bar2, I play the first note with my Finger 4 (it could also be Finger 3). I know it's cramped but it's the best way for me to properly articulate the next two notes (without using Finger 1 as Barre).
View attachment 1149032
Here is my alternative TAB and fingering for Bar 1.
It looks like Barre with Finger 1 for the third and fourth notes. Also, the eighth note could be fretted with Finger 3.
The same possibility for the first note in Bar2.

View attachment 1149033

Here is an alternative ending - Bar 4 with different TAB and fingering.
I did not want to use the 19th fret on the E string.
The alternative ending does not have that clear shifting with was, kind of, my personal "requirement" for that exercise.
View attachment 1149031
Just for Entertainment purpose, I've "doubled my speed" in Bar 3. I still cannot properly articulate that bar with the 16th notes, but I will eventually.

Any other fingering ideas for that particular exercise?

Here is a sound clip from GP.
https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...4/?temp_hash=50897218fbbebb476ac6562125483ede

I dig the sound of this... I will give it a good look over later on.

One question I do have for now is how did you arrive at that key signature? Does Melodic Minor have a key? I'd never really considered it, but I don't think it does, and for argument/information sake I guess you'd have to call it something.

I think I'd be more likely to relate Ab melodic minor to the key of Eb minor since the MM scale is basically dorian with a #7th. So I would have written it in Eb minor with an accidental on the Gb, making it G natural.

In the big picture, I'm not sure it matters which key you relate it to though...

 

[Spin Doctor]

Any other fingering ideas for that particular exercise?

So I've looked it over a little and I'm pretty sure it should be written in Eb minor, with 6 flats. That way you get rid of all the accidentals on the F's and B's. The B will be written as Cb, which is in the key. You will keep the accidental on the G notes.

I'll try playing it later.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I dig the sound of this... I will give it a good look over later on.

One question I do have for now is how did you arrive at that key signature? Does Melodic Minor have a key? I'd never really considered it, but I don't think it does, and for argument/information sake I guess you'd have to call it something.

I think I'd be more likely to relate Ab melodic minor to the key of Eb minor since the MM scale is basically dorian with a #7th. So I would have written it in Eb minor with an accidental on the Gb, making it G natural.

In the big picture, I'm not sure it matters which key you relate it to though...

Ab Melodic minor scale has 5 flats but it belongs to the Ab minor family starting with the Ab natural minor which has 7 flats in the key. The "theorists" want us to put those 7 flats in the key and use "naturals" for those raised 6th and 7th notes.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Ab Melodic minor scale has 5 flats but it belongs to the Ab minor family starting with the Ab natural minor which has 7 flats in the key. The "theorists" want us to put those 7 flats in the key and use "naturals" for those raised 6th and 7th notes.

Ahh ok. That makes sense.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

P.S. Some comic relief.

I don't have a teacher; therefore, I can have fun while playing scales.
(Please, don't try it at home).

Here is an easy "lite" way of my playing the A melodic minor scale.

Here is how it sounds with GP.
https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...5/?temp_hash=32ceb5aede88a1931ba97c240e82ae88

How would that Ab Melodic Minor scale sound in 5/4?
(I don't know why my Guitar Pro decided to notate it in some "strange" way.)

Here is the sound from GP.

https://www.talkbass.com/attachments/abmmscale3-cs-2-mp3.1149708/

 

[Whousedtoplay]

This morning, I was noodling along with some drum pattern and decided to approach the Ab Melodic Minor scale as some kind of exercise/riff. It has a lot of repetitive scale notes (which creates a sense of being a "riff") and helps me to memorize the notes from Ab Melodic Minor.
For that exercise I've used my right hand thumb. GP uses the letter, "p" for Thumb.


Here are the notes. Bar 1, 2, and 3 are the same.
I've highlighted the last Beat in Bar 1 and Bar 2 to show that I can use either the "M, I, and P" or "A, M, and P" fingering.

Here is how it sounds with GP.
https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...6/?temp_hash=a3d13085514b4dd3a91e75e907024910

P.S. Who said the scales are boring?

 

[Spin Doctor]

This morning, I was noodling along with some drum pattern and decided to approach the Ab Melodic Minor scale as some kind of exercise/riff. It has a lot of repetitive scale notes (which creates a sense of being a "riff") and helps me to memorize the notes from Ab Melodic Minor.
For that exercise I've used my right hand thumb. GP uses the letter, "p" for Thumb.
View attachment 1150574

Here are the notes. Bar 1, 2, and 3 are the same.
I've highlighted the last Beat in Bar 1 and Bar 2 to show that I can use either the "M, I, and P" or "A, M, and P" fingering.

View attachment 1150578 View attachment 1150579
Here is how it sounds with GP.
https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...6/?temp_hash=a3d13085514b4dd3a91e75e907024910

P.S. Who said the scales are boring?

Some interesting stuff you have going here lately. Melodic Minor is my current focus of study so any info I come across is welcome.