Memorizing songs?

[jnewmark]

Using a music stand and lyrics sheets IMHO is very counter to being serious about playing music out publicly. A clean stage without crutches looks so much more professional. I do get the lyrics deal; there are teleprompters that look like monitors but at this level, no one can afford those, so I can understand that issue. The short answer about using music stands is the band must'nt forget that they are ENTERTAINERS first and foremost. You generally are not gonna see any entertainers using music stands or cheat notes. The most I use is the set list, which rarely gets followed to the T. Gotta flow with your audience. Just my 2 cents.

So true. I was in an 8 piece, RnB band and we got hired to back up the great, Mack Rice for a show. Our horn players all used music stands and read. After the show, I asked Mack how he liked the band. He said, " You guys are pretty good, but lose the music stands, you're ENTERTAINERS" !

 

[rogerb]

Bold of you to say that Jazz is 'pretty repetitive.' Basic standards that everyone knows which aren't complex.... sure... no need or excuse to have a chart. BUT -'standards' - while originating from set forms generally derived from the venerable ii-V7-I progression and permutations of it - are not always what they seem, especially if the pianist or guitarist is throwing in substitutions which aren't easy to ear out perfectly. Also, there's plenty of 'Real Book' material that's trickier than one might think, especially if it's a singer doing a tune in a new key, different reharmonizations beyond the 'stock' progressions, and any songs that are not 'typical' progressions (like a lot of more modern jazz that's now part of the canon). If you're doing original jazz, and you're the composer, then asking someone who hasn't done your music before to do it without a chart on the fly is not cool.

I guess Jazz 'seems repetitive' if you're not hitting every change, or are winging your way through it with just roots.... or chromatic wandering to get through fuzzy parts. I'd rather have a chart on hand JUST IN CASE, to make sure the music doesn't sound amateur, versus not having one just because of an egotistical need to not be seen with a chart somewhere.

I agree with that I’m just playing those basic standards, and not very many of them either at this point! That’s the jazz I meant.

It would really need at least an hour better two a day which is time I don’t have at the moment. Although you can run chord progressions without a bass in hand.

I do see benefits in developing your ear, that is the eventual leap to make. It is helpful now even on a minimal level, hear it instead of reading it. Kind of like when playing a blues you know where it is going, you need to know the tune though and the melody, or at least sing the melody.

 

[JazznFunk]

So true. I was in an 8 piece, RnB band and we got hired to back up the great, Mack Rice for a show. Our horn players all used music stands and read. After the show, I asked Mack how he liked the band. He said, " You guys are pretty good, but lose the music stands, you're ENTERTAINERS" !

Funny... I see Steely Dan's horn section (and other members of the band) using charts and stands all the time - no one ever accused any of those guys of not being 'entertainers'. Sounds more like ego at play than anything else.

 

[selowitch]

Funny how I wouldn’t be caught reading a tablet or sheet at a bar gig but I wouldn’t think twice about doing so at a wedding.

 

[Core Creek]

The biggest issues I've seen with this are vocalists and using references as a crutch too much for an actual show. I will admit that vocals are hader to remember than anything (I do them as the primary sometimes). Especially when the lyrics are different enough but not significantly different when you move through the song. But when you have people who are clearly just going by ear on melodies and reading lyrics they haven't put time into it. And it's not okay.

I'm in four bands right now playing guitar and bass. I've had to learn over 200 songs in the last 18 months for these bands; it has been a lot of material and technique to learn. I usually have a tablet clipped to my mic stand with notes on the songs. One page. It has the tonal center/mode, chord progressions, and some key notes if there's something interesting to remember. Generally I don't have to use these while playing but every once and awhile I'll forget something and it's good to be able to glance and see what I'm supposed to be playing.

Guitar for me is actually super easy for me to remember what is going on. The more changes/lead parts added in, the more it sticks in my brain. Bass tends to be the worst: it's a lot of things that look exactly the same as other things in other songs. It's easy to get mixed up and forget which song it is, so being able to glance at some notes is a huge help.

I'm all over the stage when I play, so it's not like I"m standing in front of my mic stand sight reading. There's a spectrum for this, and I think OP and others are a bit extreme on "if you can't remember it 100% of the time, you aren't practicing enough". I practice a lot. A lot. But I have a hard time remembering which songs are which when a bunch of them are C major but slightly flipped progressions.

I hear you… I played guitar for the last couple of years in a band and never really had to read anything. Things like guitar solos require muscle memory and that requires it to stick. Also though, I only needed to learn 40 songs instead of the 200+ I need to know now.

I also argue that if there’s anyone in the band who needs to be on point at all times it’s the bass - and the drums. But a drummer doesn’t need to know chords. I can easily hear a drum part once and play it at a gig without having ever played it. But guitar, bass, keys - unless you have perfect pitch - requires knowing at least the key. And it’s definitely a bigger issues when a bassist drops out because a part is hazy than when the guitarist does. If the bass stops thumping something has usually gone wrong and everyone knows it.

 

[Core Creek]

Funny how I wouldn’t be caught reading a tablet or sheet at a bar gig but I wouldn’t think twice about doing so at a wedding.

What makes the distinction? They’re both gigs…? Is it just that one gig expects perfection and the other doesn’t?

 

[Fuzzbass]

I'm in a band with one 39-year old, and the rest of us are over 60. I'm 65. My past understanding has been that rock and roll bands memorize songs and don't go dragging music stands around. I'm the only member of this band that knows all the songs. We sound pretty good and have a small local following, but I hate to see people looking at cheat sheets and tablets and whatnot all the time.

Some of these songs are relatively challenging on bass, and since I don't read music (well, not really), I learn the parts and play them. Many of them have "signature" bass lines, like "Wild Night", and "Valerie" (I forget which version, but it's the faster one with the cool bass line, not the Mark Ronson arrangement), some Stevie Wonder tunes, and so on.

It's weird to me that after 18 mo. or so together, the lead singer forgets the words, the keyboardist plays chords wrong, and the guitarist has to look at his notebook between songs. Is it because pot's legal here? I don't understand.

We get a good reaction from the crowd, so maybe I should get over it, but I'm not bringing a stupid music stand. This isn't Lawrence Welk.

I'm sure it's been said a bunch, but reading from a music stand is better than making goofs onstage. Memorization is desirable and should be applauded, but there are plenty of extenuating circumstances. Some members might have busy personal lives: sick family member, long work shifts, young kids, whatever. And it might not be laziness... some don't have great memory skills.

All that said: OP, I can feel your frustration. Maybe you could go shopping for a band in addition to your current band? With luck, you could find one with skilled members who do their homework, and rarely need to rehearse. This shouldn't require a huge time commitment on your part, and the variety might reduce the frustration with your current band. But maybe your current band would get snippy about that, it happens.

 

[HeadWind]

About 15+ years or so ago, I was reading the Sat. paper and it said Phil Lesh was coming to town and tickets went on sale in about an hour or two from when I was reading it. I hopped in my car and drove straight to the venue. Was the only one there, and when they rolled up the window I got to buy tickets front row center.

Which meant the whole show I was looking straight at the bottom of Phil's music stand and couldn't see his fingers.

Still love Phil, though, and it was a great concert.

 

[Rayjay]

Next rehearsal, walk up and turn their stands around mid-song. Just like my music teachers used to do.

We play songs that sometimes literally are the same 4 chords the entire song, and at a certain point I get lovingly confrontational and ask "so....what exactly are you looking at the chart for?"

I'd be very frustrated in your situation for sure. It would only last so long. It's like having a conversation with someone who's reading the script of the conversation on a piece of paper. It's that awkward when musicians do it.

 

[logdrum]

Pot use has nothing to do with memory. San Diego has many smart RF engineers and IME no difference between the partakers and the non-partakers as far as their memory goes. I work with one who can probably recall hundreds of lines of code and he smokes blunts all day long. I think you are working with lazy people

 

[selowitch]

What makes the distinction? They’re both gigs…? Is it just that one gig expects perfection and the other doesn’t?

I can't explain it. It’s just how it is.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

I'm in a band with one 39-year old, and the rest of us are over 60. I'm 65. My past understanding has been that rock and roll bands memorize songs and don't go dragging music stands around. I'm the only member of this band that knows all the songs. We sound pretty good and have a small local following, but I hate to see people looking at cheat sheets and tablets and whatnot all the time.

Some of these songs are relatively challenging on bass, and since I don't read music (well, not really), I learn the parts and play them. Many of them have "signature" bass lines, like "Wild Night", and "Valerie" (I forget which version, but it's the faster one with the cool bass line, not the Mark Ronson arrangement), some Stevie Wonder tunes, and so on.

It's weird to me that after 18 mo. or so together, the lead singer forgets the words, the keyboardist plays chords wrong, and the guitarist has to look at his notebook between songs. Is it because pot's legal here? I don't understand.

We get a good reaction from the crowd, so maybe I should get over it, but I'm not bringing a stupid music stand. This isn't Lawrence Welk.

I could not possibly agree more!!!

I'm just a few years behind you and when I was a wee scad, you learned the songs - backwards and forwards and inside-out - and then, you were ready to gig.

I don't know if one can lay the blame at the doorstep of the legalization of the demon weed because, when we (you and I) were younger, there was plenty of "Better living through chemical enhancement" of all kinds, going on. I was more of a blackout drinker, but my party didn't start until three songs from the end.

I think this issue is a symptom of the nature of our lives. I used to have fifty phone numbers at a time memorized. Now, I doubt I could recite twenty.

We've got "memorization assistance" everywhere we turn these days and people (by-and-large and in many facets of life) have gotten lazy. We depend on the technology far too much and waste the grey matter which could be employed for memory for other, more trivial pursuits.

We once had a drummer who had a solid month to learn five new songs. When he contacted us, he was very proud of the fact he could read drum music. Kudos to him. It's not something I've ever been able to do.

He shows up for his audition and, sure enough, he takes a small music stand and an ipad (or some kind of tablet) out of his gig bag. Alright, I'm a wait-and-see type of guy.

In a song we had given him to learn there was a drum fill which was integral to our timing as well as the song. Guess where he had to pause to advance the music he was looking at on his ipad? You got it. Right in the middle of that roll/fill.

There were two other songs (so three, out of the five) which he didn't "nail".

We gave him two more weeks and told him to go home and really learn (memorize) the songs. I even mentioned to him that I found his ipad to be a bit problematic.

Two weeks later, same [poster self-censor]/different wind direction. The other guy was Hell-bent on accepting this drummer. I put up a struggle, but eventually walked away.

I hooked up with another band and while I was "on the circuit", I used to hear little bits and pieces about how unprofessional (and in some cases, laughable) that band seemed.

It's a shame, but I believe it's a sign of the times.

 

[Minimalist]

I'm in a band with one 39-year old, and the rest of us are over 60. I'm 65. My past understanding has been that rock and roll bands memorize songs and don't go dragging music stands around. I'm the only member of this band that knows all the songs. We sound pretty good and have a small local following, but I hate to see people looking at cheat sheets and tablets and whatnot all the time.

Some of these songs are relatively challenging on bass, and since I don't read music (well, not really), I learn the parts and play them. Many of them have "signature" bass lines, like "Wild Night", and "Valerie" (I forget which version, but it's the faster one with the cool bass line, not the Mark Ronson arrangement), some Stevie Wonder tunes, and so on.

It's weird to me that after 18 mo. or so together, the lead singer forgets the words, the keyboardist plays chords wrong, and the guitarist has to look at his notebook between songs. Is it because pot's legal here? I don't understand.

We get a good reaction from the crowd, so maybe I should get over it, but I'm not bringing a stupid music stand. This isn't Lawrence Welk.

I admit, I have a hard time remembering songs. Always have. That being said, I never used a stand and always wrote my sheets big enough so I could lay them on the floor.

 

[Steve Park]

Years back, in college, my audition for a jazz group was a live gig. There was no sheet music, no set list, nothing. My limited repertoire forced me to fake it by ear. The pianist occasionally leaned over to whisper some chords. It was a hard dose of reality. I did not make the group, but the experience sure gave me a kick in the behind about learning more tunes and playing by ear.
That was a long time ago, and I'm not sure I've got those chops anymore.

 

[Deleted member 394181]

Music Stands at a Rock gig!?!?!??

 

[Rib 13]

"Pros" use teleprompters all the time - they're just disguised as monitors - so IMO, we all need to get over ourselves a little in this regard. I mean really, if known acts who do the same 90-120 minute shows of their own material, several times a week for months on end use a teleprompter, where the crime in us weekend warriors - who do 3-4 hour shows covering someone else's material, hopefully changing things up along the way - using tablets?

Apples and oranges....."Pros" that use teleprompters often use them because each and every second of a large scale show like that is accounted for production sequencing, especially true if the act has a lot of choreography onstage. The teleprompter isnt there because they dont know the words: its a cue for where they are in the synchronization (especially if miming is present...but thats a topic for another thread).......a bar band all looking bored on stage together doesn't exactly qualify as choreography or timing sync

 

[in tune]

I'm reading music sheets at recording studios and during rehearsals...I memorize basslines and chords to be ready to play (especially ''songs'') without using music stand/tablet e.t.c on stage..

 

[Ostie]

Almost all big-name professional singers use teleprompters these days.

 

[57pbass]

Sometimes I need a chart and just set it on the drum riser flat next to the set list.. never a problem.
I do bring a music stand to club dates though.. I set it sideways so it’s low profile..never a problem.
I would rather play the songs correctly than hack them up.

 

[pepj]

2 gigs with same band but they've put up 2 singers so I've got 50 songs to cram.
Not impressed they forgot to mention that so I'm taking my music stand.
They aren't going to have a problem with that
..but if they did...??