Mesa 212 and 215 subway cabs.

[ezstep]

2x12 is loud. Insanely loud for something that small. Good low-mids, great mids (mid-mids?) and great highs (excluding the tweeter). The 2x15 is louder. Really good lows, great low-mids, and plenty enough mids and highs to have very good clarity (again, excluding the tweeter). Lows are just "effortless" with the 15's, and mids and highs seem more effortless with the 12's. My 2x12 will cover many gigs barefoot, and the 2x15 will cover most gigs barefoot.

Mostly, I use the 2x15 (actually, I have two 1x15 Subways), but there have been many occasions when the 2x12 Subway alone was perfect - even a couple of outdoor gigs. They are voiced different, but both are quite pleasing (imho).

Bi-amping? Did that back in the late 80's through mid 90's. Back then, a bass amp was mostly thump or thud and very little clarity. With all the improvements in speakers since then, there is no real need to bi-amp. But, I still have an amp with built-in x-over, 700 watts. Add a second, small amp on top, and I can bi-amp in a matter of seconds. I have chosen not to do that since the 90's.

 

[Lo Ki]

2x12 is loud. Insanely loud for something that small. Good low-mids, great mids (mid-mids?) and great highs (excluding the tweeter). The 2x15 is louder. Really good lows, great low-mids, and plenty enough mids and highs to have very good clarity (again, excluding the tweeter). Lows are just "effortless" with the 15's, and mids and highs seem more effortless with the 12's. My 2x12 will cover many gigs barefoot, and the 2x15 will cover most gigs barefoot.

Mostly, I use the 2x15 (actually, I have two 1x15 Subways), but there have been many occasions when the 2x12 Subway alone was perfect - even a couple of outdoor gigs. They are voiced different, but both are quite pleasing (imho).

Bi-amping? Did that back in the late 80's through mid 90's. Back then, a bass amp was mostly thump or thud and very little clarity. With all the improvements in speakers since then, there is no real need to bi-amp. But, I still have an amp with built-in x-over, 700 watts. Add a second, small amp on top, and I can bi-amp in a matter of seconds. I have chosen not to do that since the 90's.

Yeah, the latest breed of 2x12's are insanely loud. Even the brand I use I could cover most gigs with just one cab(hopefully with a decent FOH, lol!)? Givin me GAS for those Mesa 15's!

 

[bdplaid]

My apologies, I'm not super active on the forums. don't really know who is who. sorry if I came across disrespectful toward anyone. I'm all for getting away from bi-amping if I can man! I am by no means married to the idea. it's just seemed to work out for me in the past. There may be more guys out there still bi-amping than you think. just from what I've seen.

No apologies needed, I was just letting you know who were dealing with. Basically, he's the father of the Subway line.

Why do you suggest using full range cabs over bass specific cabs when splitting the signal? I do typically run distortion on my top cab and clean on my bottom. (kinda why I dig the geddy pedal, it has two separate lines out. One line out for clean lows and one line out for highs and distortion. I was planning to to do the same with the mesa cabs. sounds like ill be able to run full range to both cabs from the geddy with distortion on the top cab with out having to crossover or filter frequencies for each cab.

When I said full range, I meant cabs that are designed for bass, but not biamped. I was specifically talking about the Subway cabs.

I know there are guys who split their signal and send to different amps, for varying reasons. Some like to run in stereo, others like distortion but find they can't get a full enough sound if the distortion is all through a single cab.

Fortunately, pedal manufacturers have noted this too, and are adding blending controls to fx to roll back in some dry signal to ameliorate the damage done by the effects to the low end. I'm at the point where I won't buy an effect unless I can mix back some dry signal into that which is effected.

What I think you're doing with two amps is the big way of having ultimate control over the mix of your dry bass signal (say, the one going through the 215 cab) and the effected signal (the one going through a different cab, I suggested a 112).

I don't think that with modern equipment that's necessary, but Billy Sheehan still splits his pickups and runs to several amps, so who am I to say what's right?

 

[Lo Ki]

Wow, Man. This community is super active! thanks for all the great input guys. The order has been processed. got the 212 and the 215 both on the was to demo. Figure its the best way to get an opinion on both cabs

-Rex




In short, my orange cabs weigh as much as a Volkswagen bug. great cabs, super robust just want to try out something new. I really like mesa stuff. "these have been recommended to me a few times" I really dig the shape of these cabs and I also wanted a set of 4ohm cabs. All the oranges I have are 8ohm. Please tell me that is you in the Boots!

I actually have a bunch of orange gear that's not being used if anyone is interested.




I decided to just order up both cabs to make an opinion. I've waded through pages and pages of posts on forums in the past. It can be great for tech info but as others have stated. I'm best to just try them out myself than be influenced by others that may be after something completely different than me.

Thanks for your replies Wasnex. much appreciated.

-Rex




My apologies, I'm not super active on the forums. don't really know who is who. sorry if I came across disrespectful toward anyone. I'm all for getting away from bi-amping if I can man! I am by no means married to the idea. it's just seemed to work out for me in the past. There may be more guys out there still bi-amping than you think. just from what I've seen.

Why do you suggest using full range cabs over bass specific cabs when splitting the signal? I do typically run distortion on my top cab and clean on my bottom. (kinda why I dig the geddy pedal, it has two separate lines out. One line out for clean lows and one line out for highs and distortion. I was planning to to do the same with the mesa cabs. sounds like ill be able to run full range to both cabs from the geddy with distortion on the top cab with out having to crossover or filter frequencies for each cab.

-Rex



This actually sounds like a great idea. I never seem to use tweeters on cabs, I'm usually distorting on the high end and it always sounds like the tweeters are going to die lol. I can't imagine why. lol. What you are sayin GK is doing here sounds pretty interesting.

-Rex

The weight factor was why I chose the 'yellow speaker' brand. Not so much the sound factor because I do get the sound I want out of'em. Oh and yeah that's me in the boots. Usually I wear biker boots, lol!

 

[bdplaid]

Let me add that I once ran a full range stack comprised of two Subway 115s with a 112 on top. Overwhelming is a word that comes to mind, but isn't close to strong enough.

I'm an older player who's done stints in hard rock and metal, and that stack scared me a little.

I can't begin to describe how much "more" it sounded than any of my bi- or tri-amped rigs using a variety of 18s, 215s, 810s, or 412s.

I like to think I've tried it all in a big way, and nothing topped that two 115 plus 112 Mesa Subway rig driven by a D800+.

 

[Rex Renolds]

2x12 is loud. Insanely loud for something that small. Good low-mids, great mids (mid-mids?) and great highs (excluding the tweeter). The 2x15 is louder. Really good lows, great low-mids, and plenty enough mids and highs to have very good clarity (again, excluding the tweeter). Lows are just "effortless" with the 15's, and mids and highs seem more effortless with the 12's. My 2x12 will cover many gigs barefoot, and the 2x15 will cover most gigs barefoot.

Hey, thanks for the reply man. So maybe I will end up liking both cabs together if running clean to the 215 and distorted to the 212? What does "barefoot" mean? no pa support for your rig?

Mostly, I use the 2x15 (actually, I have two 1x15 Subways), but there have been many occasions when the 2x12 Subway alone was perfect - even a couple of outdoor gigs. They are voiced different, but both are quite pleasing (imho).

Bi-amping? Did that back in the late 80's through mid 90's. Back then, a bass amp was mostly thump or thud and very little clarity. With all the improvements in speakers since then, there is no real need to bi-amp. But, I still have an amp with built-in x-over, 700 watts. Add a second, small amp on top, and I can bi-amp in a matter of seconds. I have chosen not to do that since the 90's.

Thanks man, sounds like maybe I'll really want to consider keeping both the 212 and the 215.

Yeah, the latest breed of 2x12's are insanely loud. Even the brand I use I could cover most gigs with just one cab(hopefully with a decent FOH, lol!)? Givin me GAS for those Mesa 15's!

Man me too, just put in a request for two of the D800+ heads. sounds like these subway models are really well liked.

No apologies needed, I was just letting you know who were dealing with. Basically, he's the father of the Subway line.

Awesome! awesome to have him around and sharing info and opinions then! Thanks agedhorse.

When I said full range, I meant cabs that are designed for bass, but not biamped. I was specifically talking about the Subway cabs.

Ok, got ya on that. thought you were talking FRFR cabs, like PA speakers or something.

I know there are guys who split their signal and send to different amps, for varying reasons. Some like to run in stereo, others like distortion but find they can't get a full enough sound if the distortion is all through a single cab.

Fortunately, pedal manufacturers have noted this too, and are adding blending controls to fx to roll back in some dry signal to ameliorate the damage done by the effects to the low end. I'm at the point where I won't buy an effect unless I can mix back some dry signal into that which is effected.

I would be the second guy. "like distortion but find I can't get a full enough sound if the distortion is all through a single cab" Seems like the low-end thins out when combining clean low and high with distortion out one cab. IDK maybe I'm just dumb lol. Just always seems to sounds better to me when there is an individual cab for each signal. "Hoping this wont be the case with the subway cabs" True about pedals and preamp pedals, they are starting to get pretty trick. the Geddy pedal, Doug Pinnick, good old Sansamp and RBI. Darkglass also has some really cool stuff too.

What I think you're doing with two amps is the big way of having ultimate control over the mix of your dry bass signal (say, the one going through the 215 cab) and the effected signal (the one going through a different cab, I suggested a 112).

I don't think that with modern equipment that's necessary, but Billy Sheehan still splits his pickups and runs to several amps, so who am I to say what's right?

Yeah, sounds pretty much like what I've been doing for a while. how come you suggested a 112 over a 212 for the effected signal? Well I really hope you are right id love to get away from having to do this, its just always sounded better to my ears. lol, good old Billy. Right? what's work for him has worked for years.

The weight factor was why I chose the 'yellow speaker' brand. Not so much the sound factor because I do get the sound I want out of'em. Oh and yeah that's me in the boots. Usually I wear biker boots, lol!

Very cool man! I dig the CB boots!

Let me add that I once ran a full range stack comprised of two Subway 115s with a 112 on top. Overwhelming is a word that comes to mind, but isn't close to strong enough.

I'm an older player who's done stints in hard rock and metal, and that stack scared me a little.

I can't begin to describe how much "more" it sounded than any of my bi- or tri-amped rigs using a variety of 18s, 215s, 810s, or 412s.

I like to think I've tried it all in a big way, and nothing topped that two 115 plus 112 Mesa Subway rig driven by a D800+.

You are getting me all worked up over here! lol. poopie, so do you think a 212 on top of the 215 would be too much then, if I'm am not running a separate low and high signal to each cab?

I've put a couple of the D800+ heads on request so I should get to experience this for myself.

 

[bdplaid]

how come you suggested a 112 over a 212 for the effected signal?

Because I think your effects signal will be more like icing on the cake. The cake will come from the uneffected 215s cab.

I thinkof it like a biamped signal: you don't need a huge speaker to push out the high end. But you do need one that is appropriate for the job. Because the 15s are carrying the weight of the tone, you don't need much to add the effects on top of it. I could be wrong because I don't do effects that way, but if I wanted to go there, it's what I'd try first. Remember, I have experience with two 15s and a 112, so I know that even if I didn't like the 2 amp approach, I could use all the cabs together for that huge sound I mentioned earlier.

so do you think a 212 on top of the 215 would be too much then, if I'm am not running a separate low and high signal to each cab?

Personally I do think it's overkill, but you may not. You may find that the 212 cab is exactly what you want and get another. I don't know. But I suspect you'll like both cabs for different reasons, and have trouble figuring out which to return.

You should spend some time on the Subway club forum. There's a guy there with three 115s making most of us jealous. Your questions are relevant over there as well.

 

[bdplaid]

Official Mesa Boogie Subway Series Club

 

[Lo Ki]

Thanks man, sounds like maybe I'll really want to consider keeping both the 212 and the 215.



Man me too, just put in a request for two of the D800+ heads. sounds like these subway models are really well liked.



Awesome! awesome to have him around and sharing info and opinions then! Thanks agedhorse.



Ok, got ya on that. thought you were talking FRFR cabs, like PA speakers or something.



I would be the second guy. "like distortion but find I can't get a full enough sound if the distortion is all through a single cab" Seems like the low-end thins out when combining clean low and high with distortion out one cab. IDK maybe I'm just dumb lol. Just always seems to sounds better to me when there is an individual cab for each signal. "Hoping this wont be the case with the subway cabs" True about pedals and preamp pedals, they are starting to get pretty trick. the Geddy pedal, Doug Pinnick, good old Sansamp and RBI. Darkglass also has some really cool stuff too.



Yeah, sounds pretty much like what I've been doing for a while. how come you suggested a 112 over a 212 for the effected signal? Well I really hope you are right id love to get away from having to do this, its just always sounded better to my ears. lol, good old Billy. Right? what's work for him has worked for years.



Very cool man! I dig the CB boots!



You are getting me all worked up over here! lol. poopie, so do you think a 212 on top of the 215 would be too much then, if I'm am not running a separate low and high signal to each cab?

I've put a couple of the D800+ heads on request so I should get to experience this for myself.

If you like'm keep'em both, at least you know you're covered, lol! D800+.....my current GAS, haha!

 

[bdplaid]

do you think a 212 on top of the 215 would be too much then, if I'm am not running a separate low and high signal to each cab?

I wanted to also say that running just a high signal above the frequency you mentioned of around 500 hz would be an absolute and utter waste. A crime, actually. Filtering the Subway cabs like that is just not what they're built for.

One of the ways I used to "biamp" was to run the lower end cab full range, and only xover the top cab. Even so, the Subways aren't built for this, but rather are built toball work together as a system, meaning you can mix and match them any way you want.
Go over to the Subway club page and search through the 25000 posts for agedhorse 's comments about that.

 

[Rex Renolds]

Because I think your effects signal will be more like icing on the cake. The cake will come from the uneffected 215s cab.

I thinkof it like a biamped signal: you don't need a huge speaker to push out the high end. But you do need one that is appropriate for the job. Because the 15s are carrying the weight of the tone, you don't need much to add the effects on top of it. I could be wrong because I don't do effects that way, but if I wanted to go there, it's what I'd try first. Remember, I have experience with two 15s and a 112, so I know that even if I didn't like the 2 amp approach, I could use all the cabs together for that huge sound I mentioned earlier.


Personally I do think it's overkill, but you may not. You may find that the 212 cab is exactly what you want and get another. I don't know. But I suspect you'll like both cabs for different reasons, and have trouble figuring out which to return.

You should spend some time on the Subway club forum. There's a guy there with three 115s making most of us jealous. Your questions are relevant over there as well.

Yeah that makes sense, how do you do effects? I don't really use any other than distortion. well hell maybe I went a little overboard with cabs then. I'll test the 212 and 215 and see what's up. Maybe I'll exchange the 212 for a 112 or order a 112 later depending on my results.

I wanted to also say that running just a high signal above the frequency you mentioned of around 500 hz would be an absolute and utter waste. A crime, actually. Filtering the Subway cabs like that is just not what they're built for.

One of the ways I used to "biamp" was to run the lower end cab full range, and only xover the top cab. Even so, the Subways aren't built for this, but rather are built toball work together as a system, meaning you can mix and match them any way you want.
Go over to the Subway club page and search through the 25000 posts for agedhorse 's comments about that.

Right? I've kind of came to the conclusion (from you and others) that these are to be run full range. not neuter any frequencies. I promise I will run them full range. lol.

 

[bdplaid]

Yeah that makes sense, how do you do effects? I don't really use any other than distortion. well hell maybe I went a little overboard with cabs then. I'll test the 212 and 215 and see what's up. Maybe I'll exchange the 212 for a 112 or order a 112 later depending on my results.



Right? I've kind of came to the conclusion (from you and others) that these are to be run full range. not neuter any frequencies. I promise I will run them full range. lol.

Funny!

I run effects the standard way, just bass into fx into head. But I run two compressors, one at the start and another at the end of the chain. But all of my fx have either blend controls or multiple volumes foe dry or effects.

I don't run distortion because I don't like it. But I hear the Subway heads can be overdriven and sound good. You'll have to ask someone else about that.

I use envelope follower, octave, flanger. But actually very seldom, the compressors really help make my sound. FYI, one of them is for tone and punch, the other for sustain.

 

[Rex Renolds]

Funny!

I run effects the standard way, just bass into fx into head. But I run two compressors, one at the start and another at the end of the chain. But all of my fx have either blend controls or multiple volumes foe dry or effects.

I don't run distortion because I don't like it. But I hear the Subway heads can be overdriven and sound good. You'll have to ask someone else about that.

I use envelope follower, octave, flanger. But actually very seldom, the compressors really help make my sound. FYI, one of them is for tone and punch, the other for sustain.

Very nice! My compressor is a pretty big part of my set up too. What compressors are you digging on right now? What kinda tunes do you usually jam on? I do mostly rock and metal stuff.

-Rex

 

[bdplaid]

Very nice! My compressor is a pretty big part of my set up too. What compressors are you digging on right now? What kinda tunes do you usually jam on? I do mostly rock and metal stuff.

-Rex

Comps are Diamond first then OvniFX Smoothie.
Music prefs are funk, acid jazz, prog rock, although my listening tastes are all over the place.

 

[Wild Rice Chris]

Did someone say overkill on cabs?

I started with a 115, then the 212 came out and was what I really wanted, but I found a 2nd 115 first, but then I found a used 212 add couldn't resist, then I found a good deal on a 112. No, you can't run all of these at the same time with a single amp. If I were currently playing rock/metal, I think the character of the 212 would be my first choice. Goes deep enough but leaves room for the drums underneath. Snarls more/differently than the pair of 115s.

I am planning on selling one of them, but really haven't decided which yet. Two weeks until I'm fully vaccinated and can crank them with a drummer.

 

[Thebinge]

Did someone say overkill on cabs?

View attachment 4241937

I started with a 115, then the 212 came out and was what I really wanted, but I found a 2nd 115 first, but then I found a used 212 add couldn't resist, then I found a good deal on a 112. No, you can't run all of these at the same time with a single amp. If I were currently playing rock/metal, I think the character of the 212 would be my first choice. Goes deep enough but leaves room for the drums underneath. Snarls more/differently than the pair of 115s.

I am planning on selling one of them, but really haven't decided which yet. Two weeks until I'm fully vaccinated and can crank them with a drummer.

What's the Leslie speaker connected to?

 

[Wild Rice Chris]

Most Leslies have internal amplifiers. This one has an Art TubeMP preamp so I can run anything through it. My dad got a reputation around town for being able to bring dead Leslies back to life, so I took one to free up some space in his basement.

 

[Rex Renolds]

Head came in today. Requested the D800+ But received the WD800. I guess It has a preamp tube or something in it.

Hooked it up to the 410 and 115 orange cabs. Thing sounds great! The mids and the control over them! God damn! Pretty great amp. I think I’ll keep it.

can’t wait to try it with the subway cabs.

-Rex

 

[agedhorse]

Head came in today. Requested the D800+ But received the WD800. I guess It has a preamp tube or something in it.

Hooked it up to the 410 and 115 orange cabs. Thing sounds great! The mids and the control over them! God damn! Pretty great amp. I think I’ll keep it.

can’t wait to try it with the subway cabs.

-Rex

How did that happen?

Read up in the manual about the master-slave configuration if you want to drive 4 x 4 ohm cabinets using the a preamp. It's configured to do that.

 

[Rex Renolds]

How did that happen?

Read up in the manual about the master-slave configuration if you want to drive 4 x 4 ohm cabinets using the a preamp. It's configured to do that.

someone wasn’t paying attention when packing the order I guess. Idk

I’m not complaining, this model seems pretty nice. The options on mid adjustments are very nice. The low cut is a great addition as well.

fx loop send out of master amp into FX return of slave amp? Master volume on each amp (master and slave) adjusts volume of each set of 4ohm speakers separately? Master amp EQ And setting adjust across all speakers?


-Rex