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Mesa Boogie, Part 3

#201
dukeisdog said:
I'm still really jealous of your 810, I bet that thing is awesome. I wish I could find one locally, but for now I'm really happy with the 6X10. And I know what you mean about these things being stupidly loud. With just the 610 the Mpulse 360 is really loud. When I add the 1200 it gets crushingly loud, I'm sure the 610 and 412 are going to be ridiculous together... I'll find out tomorrow. I'm sure the Mpulse 600 is incredibly loud, and I'm saying that as I don't think I'm going to need to upgrade from the 360. Could you maybe share your EQ settings with me? I've found a decent tone out of the tube pre but really haven't experimented with the para eq yet. Also, am I supposed to be able to get a nice tube grind with the gain up? I can turn the gain up pretty far but it just gets a nasty farty tone like my SS amps. I can tell when the gain isn't cranked it sounds a little more tubey though.

The original owner said he had the gear about 4 years, used it about 5 times a year each year to jam with friends, and it's in awesome shape. Should I replace the tubes? How much should I expect that to run me cost wise?
Click to expand...


I don't use my semi-para EQ all that much - I can get a really good sound with the passive 3 band: bass @ 1-2 o'clock, treble @ 12 noon, mids @ 1 o'clock for Jazz's, 11 o'clock for P Basses... I typically gig 3 basses in a night - either 2 passives, one active, or 1 passive, 2 actives, so I'll set the 3 band for one of the passives, then if I need anything else for one of the others, I'll use the semi-para for that, and switch it on and off... An example would be that sometimes my actives aren't as mid present as my passives, and tend to disappear in the mix, so I'll boost a little(1 o'clock) @ 120 and 400, with their settings at 1 o'clock and 11 o'clock, respectively... Or, if one of my passives needs a little additional low end, I'll boost a little 40 @ 1-2 o'clock... Switching the Semi-para on and off like that to balance bass changes has worked out really well for me...

Regarding Gain - I run it @ noon for quick clean SS type sound, 1-3 o'clock for some tube action... That amp will never produce the kind of tube grind you can get out of the BB750, just tube warmth and *some* grit - if you're looking for more than that, you'll want to add a pedal... Also, you know that what sounds great by itself *usually* doesn't work all that great in a band setting, and what works well in a band setting doesn't always sound that great *by itself*, right??

Lastly - about tubes: they really don't need to be changed all that often, and aren't that expensive... I tried some JJs in mine, and didn't like them as well as the Mesa tubes, so I went back to them... Best source I know for Mesa tubes is Sweetwater - I think they're around $15 each, and there's two of them in that amp... If it were me, buying a used amp - I'd probably put new tubes in it, and keep the old ones for spares - for peace of mind, more than anything...

Hope this helps,

- georgestrings
 
#202
georgestrings said:
I don't use my semi-para EQ all that much - I can get a really good sound with the passive 3 band: bass @ 1-2 o'clock, treble @ 12 noon, mids @ 1 o'clock for Jazz's, 11 o'clock for P Basses... I typically gig 3 basses in a night - either 2 passives, one active, or 1 passive, 2 actives, so I'll set the 3 band for one of the passives, then if I need anything else for one of the others, I'll use the semi-para for that, and switch it on and off... An example would be that sometimes my actives aren't as mid present as my passives, and tend to disappear in the mix, so I'll boost a little(1 o'clock) @ 120 and 400, with their settings at 1 o'clock and 11 o'clock, respectively... Or, if one of my passives needs a little additional low end, I'll boost a little 40 @ 1-2 o'clock... Switching the Semi-para on and off like that to balance bass changes has worked out really well for me...

Regarding Gain - I run it @ noon for quick clean SS type sound, 1-3 o'clock for some tube action... That amp will never produce the kind of tube grind you can get out of the BB750, just tube warmth and *some* grit - if you're looking for more than that, you'll want to add a pedal... Also, you know that what sounds great by itself *usually* doesn't work all that great in a band setting, and what works well in a band setting doesn't always sound that great *by itself*, right??

Lastly - about tubes: they really don't need to be changed all that often, and aren't that expensive... I tried some JJs in mine, and didn't like them as well as the Mesa tubes, so I went back to them... Best source I know for Mesa tubes is Sweetwater - I think they're around $15 each, and there's two of them in that amp... If it were me, buying a used amp - I'd probably put new tubes in it, and keep the old ones for spares - for peace of mind, more than anything...

Hope this helps,

- georgestrings
Click to expand...

I've been reading a lot of guys that are using these amps don't really like the Para eq on that much, and I can see why. I find that with the treble dimed on the amp, I don't get nearly as trebly of a tone as I did with my Peavey Tour 700, but once I tough my treble on my bass it brightens everything up. I'm the type of guy that likes a fair bit of zing in my tone with a little bit of fret buzz, this amp sounds killer for it. I can tell I'll have to do some experimenting with the amp, but I'm more then sure the EQ and power section will be way more then I need.

Yeah, a nice OD isn't really doable, but I don't use an OD effect6, I just like some grit in my tone. With the my heavy handed technique and the tube pre in this amp, my Spector Euro 5LX just sings, awesome ballsy rock tone. And yeah, I know that what works at home generally doesn't work in a band mix, but I've been playing with these guys long enough now to know my role in the mix, I'll probably have to boost my mids a little bit more but that won't be too big of a problem. I'm really happy that the M-pulse also has a built in compressor, I'm now planning on switching to a 4U rack with my power conditioner, tuner and amp now.

I'll definitely look into tubes during the week, but I don't think it really needs new tubes. I'm just wondering if it sounds this good with 3 or 4 year old tubes, then it must only sound better with brand new ones, right?

Also, swapped the grills on my PH1200 and 610 no problem. Now the 610 has the matching grill to my PH1200. Here's a pic of the new cab and amp, I'll post a real rig shot later. I like the black metal grill the best now, I think. :hyper:
MesaPh610.jpg
 
#204
dukeisdog said:
I've been reading a lot of guys that are using these amps don't really like the Para eq on that much, and I can see why. I find that with the treble dimed on the amp, I don't get nearly as trebly of a tone as I did with my Peavey Tour 700, but once I tough my treble on my bass it brightens everything up. I'm the type of guy that likes a fair bit of zing in my tone with a little bit of fret buzz, this amp sounds killer for it. I can tell I'll have to do some experimenting with the amp, but I'm more then sure the EQ and power section will be way more then I need.

Yeah, a nice OD isn't really doable, but I don't use an OD effect6, I just like some grit in my tone. With the my heavy handed technique and the tube pre in this amp, my Spector Euro 5LX just sings, awesome ballsy rock tone. And yeah, I know that what works at home generally doesn't work in a band mix, but I've been playing with these guys long enough now to know my role in the mix, I'll probably have to boost my mids a little bit more but that won't be too big of a problem. I'm really happy that the M-pulse also has a built in compressor, I'm now planning on switching to a 4U rack with my power conditioner, tuner and amp now.

I'll definitely look into tubes during the week, but I don't think it really needs new tubes. I'm just wondering if it sounds this good with 3 or 4 year old tubes, then it must only sound better with brand new ones, right?

Also, swapped the grills on my PH1200 and 610 no problem. Now the 610 has the matching grill to my PH1200. Here's a pic of the new cab and amp, I'll post a real rig shot later. I like the black metal grill the best now, I think. :hyper:
MesaPh610.jpg
Click to expand...


I hope I didn't give the impression that I don't like the semi-para EQ, as there's really nothing to dislike about it... It is really powerful, though - and little changes with it are probably more productive than radical changes... I don't use it fulltime because I'm getting the sound I'm looking for without it - but certainly would use it more often, if the need/want were to arise...

Regarding tubes - if the current ones are working well, I doubt you'll notice any improvements by changing them - although it's a good idea to have a couple of spares around, just in case... It's not uncommon for preamp tubes like those to last 10 years or more - but that doesn't always happen...

Lastly - the grill change looks good... Did you A/B the PH610 against the PH1200, yet??? - just curious...


- georgestrings
 
#205
georgestrings said:
I hope I didn't give the impression that I don't like the semi-para EQ, as there's really nothing to dislike about it... It is really powerful, though - and little changes with it are probably more productive than radical changes... I don't use it fulltime because I'm getting the sound I'm looking for without it - but certainly would use it more often, if the need/want were to arise...

Regarding tubes - if the current ones are working well, I doubt you'll notice any improvements by changing them - although it's a good idea to have a couple of spares around, just in case... It's not uncommon for preamp tubes like those to last 10 years or more - but that doesn't always happen...

Lastly - the grill change looks good... Did you A/B the PH610 against the PH1200, yet??? - just curious...


- georgestrings
Click to expand...

No, no, not at all. I understood what you were saying completely. I took the new gear to band practice today and all I can say is... WOW. I mostly used the tube pre section, but I dialled in some extra mids with the para eq, I can tell that this amp is very versatile with that EQ engaged. And yeah, I think the tubes are fine, but I may get two new ones and just throw them in, keep the old ones around as spares for now.

Yeah, I actually did get a chance to A/B them today. That was the only time I did it as I was just playing through both cabs together, but I can definitely see what most guys say about the PH610 being more defined. I found the PH1200 to be a little boomy in the low frequencies, but it can be EQ'd out I find. Overall you can't go wrong with any of the PH series cabs in my opinion. Given the chance, I'd take the 610 over the 1200, but the 1200 is not a bad cab at all, I'd actually be keeping it if I could afford 3 big cabs, but ones gotta go.

Here's a pic of the full rig at the jam space. I ended up switching the cabs around so my rack and 610 are on the right side. It sounds killer all together. I have the frequency switch on the back of the 412 all the way down and all the way up on the 610. I couldn't be happier with this setup!!
fullrigatjamspace.jpg
 
#207
kulit17 said:
Other then grill style anyone have any opinions about mixing a PH212 and a vintage ph212 for a stack?
Click to expand...

My opinion would be to do it, I think you'll love it. I've been running my PH412 for a few months now and this is seriously the best built and sounding cab I've ever owned. I can tell I won't be needing a new cab for MANY years to come especially since I just picked up that 610, but when I do, I know I'll be looking at MESA gear again.
 
#210
Guys -- I posted this in the 750/V12 Club thread, too -- but that thread gets little traffic. So, I'll post here too. I have recently owned a Walkabout, 600, M6, and BB750. The 750 is the amp I am focusing on at the moment. The overdrive has perplexed me and I did a lot of fiddling.


Some have commented that the Overdrive section sounds thin, loss of fundamental. This is true. But, I found that the overdrive channel needs WAY different EQ to make up for its natural mid-focus, lack of fundamental and sheen. When I apply EQ liberally to the overdrive channel it sounds very good -- bass at 3, treble at 4. That is the upside -- this overdrive channel can sound very wooly and musical, not necessarily metal distortion, if you want the Walkabout sound. But the downside it that once its EQ'd properly, footswitching over to the "clean" sound provides too much of the EQ. So, it seems like an either/or proposition on the overdrive channel on the 750 to me. Alternatively, I did find that leaving the bass control near noon, then switching to the overdrive section, I could quickly make up for loss of fundamental on my active Like Lull J-bass (nickel rounds) with a quick dial up on the bass on the instrument. On my passive Lakland PJ (flats), this was not an option.

I've also heard that the BB750 is not as loud as other Mesa products. I think I have concluded that the pre-amp section is setup for HUGE dynamic range. So, in clean mode with the Gain at Noon, the master needs to be much further up than you might expect -- and the amp seems to run out of gas. But that appears to just be a lower pre-amp gain feeding the amp. If you set the Gain up to 3 o'clock, the amp really cranks. Kick in the overdrive section and there is even more pre-amp gain to be had -- and the OD master needs to run at only 8-9 o'clock. Thus the huge dynamic range operating inside the pre-amp section.

As a test -- I patched and fed the BB750 amp section with the effects output from my M6 Carbine. The BB750 amp section was every bit as loud as the M6 amp, it seemed to me. This confirms that the BB750 pre-amp level out is highly dependent on the mode and gain controls.

Lastly, I've read in these pages that the BB750 is a metal-oriented rock amp. It can certainly do tons of distortion, but tweaked well - I found the amp to be very well suited for pocket playing, finger-style, flat-wound strings, etc. Can be much smoother and tubier than the M6. I think comparisons to the Walkabout are very much right-on.

My conclusions? So far, anyhow....
1) The BB750 is not a one-trick pony and not a metal niche amp. In fact it sounds quite good with my passive Lakland PJ with flats. Lots of punch.
2) The BB750 has lots of dynamic range in the pre-amp and the amp section is very powerful when fed well from the pre-amp. The amp section does not run out of gas if fed liberally from the pre-amp.
3) The Overdrive feature needs a lot of EQ to make it sound like the wooly version of the clean channel.
4) Overdrive settings past Noon are strictly for a special effect type distortion sound, which I will probably never use. Around Noon and below its very tube-ey and wooly when EQ'd properly (a lot) and gain/master set properly.
5) Despite the Mesa users manual stating that the Overdrive gain knob sets the blend of overdrive to clean, I don't think that is true. The knob sets the saturation of the two overdrive tubes dedicated to that circuit -- which are in-line series with the rest of the pre-amp. No blend. I wish it was blend like a Sansamp, but I really don't think it is.
6) In tube pulling testing -- the first 2 tubes (near the input jack) are for the Overdrive section -- pulling them, the amp continues to function normally in normal mode. The right pair of tubes are the traditional m-pulse pre-amp tunes. When these are pulled, the pre-amp does not function. So, saying the BB750 has 4 pre-amp tubes is a little misleading. In normal mode, only 2 tubes are used a la Walkabout and 600. The rule of thumb that the tube closest to the input jack is the first stage of the pre-amp? Not true in the BB750.

Eager for comments, thoughts, call me an idiot, or whatever. Just trying to de-mystify this BB750. It is a little more complex than the controls let on. I sort of like that.
 
#211
I always liked my Mesa 750.. I do federally like a rich overdriven tone 90% of the time. The only reason I got rid of mine, was for the Titan v12 which is basically 2 of them stacked on top of each other. For not too much more weight. The walkabout scout is still my main gig amp though just based on the size, and the tone. Not to mention my swr 12 stack has been going through a tolex recover for the last 18 months.. Doing it at home isn't all that difficult, but it's a heavy box, and i haven't been nearly as productive as I would have liked. I'm hoping to pickup another walkabout head with some rack ears to mound into a Mesa 2x12 combo cabined to have a kind of super walkabout combo. One of these days I'll find that head.
Moral of my story.. Mesa has a head or heads for everyone. Someone needs to have a walkabout and some cash and want to trade for a really nice musicman bass.
Sorry for the derail.
It's been a weird day
 
#212
Just starting the honeymoon with my new BB 750 and PH412 cabinet. Picked it up for $1800 in great condition though it was a 5-hour drive to get it. Definitely overkill for my needs but even at low volumes the sound is rich and well diffused. (I'm upgrading from a 1x12 so just the height of the drivers makes a huge sonic difference).

_MR28514_2.jpg

Guess I need a number...
 
#214
Hot, hot rig.:bassist:

Strat0caster said:
Just starting the honeymoon with my new BB 750 and PH412 cabinet. Picked it up for $1800 in great condition though it was a 5-hour drive to get it. Definitely overkill for my needs but even at low volumes the sound is rich and well diffused. (I'm upgrading from a 1x12 so just the height of the drivers makes a huge sonic difference).

View attachment 265698

Guess I need a number...
Click to expand...
 
#215
So I found out while on a gig Sat night, that one of the drivers in one of my PH212 drivers is blown. I didn't notice it last week in practice but it definitely was giving me fits when plugging in.
I bought both these cabs new and have my receipts, tags, etc., but is that covered under the Warranty? I would assume so, but just wanted to check if anyone knew.
 
#216
Congrats! Beautiful rig! Nice price! Worth the time in the car seat for sure :) :bassist:

Strat0caster said:
Just starting the honeymoon with my new BB 750 and PH412 cabinet. Picked it up for $1800 in great condition though it was a 5-hour drive to get it. Definitely overkill for my needs but even at low volumes the sound is rich and well diffused. (I'm upgrading from a 1x12 so just the height of the drivers makes a huge sonic difference).

View attachment 265698

Guess I need a number...
Click to expand...
 
#217
Hiya Mesa guys and gals. Picked up an older PH115 from my guitarist a few months back. Now I'm waiting semi patiently for the brown truck to deliver the newer version with the player control to my door. Tried running just the single 15 cab with my Aggy 500sc a couple of weeks ago and fell in love with the tone. Naturally, I figured if one was good,...then two........:bassist:

I didn't see a lot of folks using this cab config as I scanned through the thread, but was wondering if anyone had tried this configuration out with a GB 9.0 head? Been considering picking one of these up since the price has dropped so low on them. I'm thinking it might be a pretty good match,....anyone with any experience with this setup? Love the tone from my Aggy through the cab, clean, warm, thick, just thinking it would be nice to have the GB tube thing happening sometimes as well. Thanks,...and no need to give me a number,...I'd forget what it was anyway! ;)
 
#218
Well, my PH115 arrived today, safe and sound. Cab sounds GREAT!!!! One thing though,...they didn't mention that it was the 600 watt 4 ohm model.....my aggy head can't run both cabs. :bawl: I think I've hit on a temporary fix though. Going to add a 400 watt crown to the mix,...signal chain will be, bass, M9 board, left out to aggy into the new PH115, right out to carl martin stomp compressor to the crown, into the 400 watt 8 ohm cab. Should work until I pick up a shuttle 12.0 I think. Anyone tried the 12.0 into a pair of PH115's? Thanks in advance for any input.
 

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