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Mesa-Boogie STUPID price control. I am mad!
- Thread starter Coelho
- Start date
it's not price fixing. They have no control over what other amps by Ampeg sell for. Now if Ampeg and Mesa colluded to rule the tube amp market, that would be price fixing.
Last I checked Mesa was made in USA. They are simply protecting their margins (and the smaller retailers who cannot afford to fight GC head on).
Last I checked Mesa was made in USA. They are simply protecting their margins (and the smaller retailers who cannot afford to fight GC head on).
That's good. I bought my M/B because it is an honest, pay-a-dollar, get-a-dollar amplifier. None of this "let's go offshore to manufacture and get rich!" mindset. Everybody's already griping about Ric and their refusal to join in the MBA pricing/manufacturing game (disclaimer: I owned a Ric, and didn't much like it) but I for one prefer the straight ahead "this is what we build, this is how much we have to charge for it" marketing model -- or, are you one of those guys who think that financial whizzes "invent" new things for any other purpose than to ream you?
No, I'll go with M/B as it exists. Their dealer relations can't be that damn awful, and they seem to sell everything they make.
Somehow, I suspect my M/B will be worth a little more, ten years down the road, than the latest "GET IT FOR 40% OFF!!!" whiz-bang down at the big-box store.
So far so good, but why can't the scratched, missing knobs, with dents amp be discounted? Doesn't make any sense.
Just to emphasize:
I don't care if Mesa Boogie or Apple control(fix) their prices. What I can't understand is expecting someone to pay full price on a not "new in the box" unit.
Even Apple sells their refurbished items at a discount.
What happens with the blemished floor models? Do they get refurbished by Mesa and sold again as new???
I don't care if Mesa Boogie or Apple control(fix) their prices. What I can't understand is expecting someone to pay full price on a not "new in the box" unit.
Even Apple sells their refurbished items at a discount.
What happens with the blemished floor models? Do they get refurbished by Mesa and sold again as new???
It is price fixing. I get your point between ampeg and mesa but what youre forgetting is that Mesa and Guitar Center are also different companies than one another. Hence it is price fixing. Although due to the loophole they get away with it. If Mesa wants a specific price for their product they were free to sell it themselves rather than begin relationships with retailers and distributors.
Its a manufacturers SUGGESTED retail price. The only reason its technically not price fixing is because guitar center is free to charge what they want. Mesa however will punish them if they chose to stray from what mesa sets as a price.
Its a manufacturers SUGGESTED retail price. The only reason its technically not price fixing is because guitar center is free to charge what they want. Mesa however will punish them if they chose to stray from what mesa sets as a price.
Also contributing to the problem is people believing a dealer should allow them unmitigated access to a $1500 amp they have no intenion of purchasing so that they can buy a NIB one from another retailer.
Mike
Its my understanding that the resellers agree with you on this one. It kind of screws them as far as floor models go.
Quick update:
I was able to get a floor model that was just put in 2 hours before I got to the store. Absolutely not a single mark on it. All papers included, etc, the only thing I didn't get was the original box.
I paid full (fixed) Mesa price, but was able to get 18 months no payment finance. So theoretically my purchase gets discounted by whatever interest I am able to produce on this money during these 18 months.
I was able to get a floor model that was just put in 2 hours before I got to the store. Absolutely not a single mark on it. All papers included, etc, the only thing I didn't get was the original box.
I paid full (fixed) Mesa price, but was able to get 18 months no payment finance. So theoretically my purchase gets discounted by whatever interest I am able to produce on this money during these 18 months.
Perhaps the floor model policy is to prevent dealers from intentionally moving many units at lower prices under the guise of being floor models, even if they've only been out for a bit and are super clean. Personally I see absolutely nothing wrong with a manufacturer setting a retail price floor if they choose, especially since the gear is built where I live and presumably pays a living wage to some people. It's simply a different business model. Given the plethora of gear vailable, there's no moral or legal imperative for MB to allow discounts. I also like their value per dollar and service. If they had a monopoly or near monopoly, things would be different, but they don't. That said, it IS a drag to see a dinged floor model with a full retail tag. And to the OP, let us know how your diggin' it after the honeymoon is over. My Walkabout honeymoon never ended, and so far my M9 experience feels similar.
It is Guitar Center's responsibility to see that the amps they are selling don't get mis-used and abused (and this has obviously never been a priority for them), which has nothing to do with Mesa. When you consider buying a demo amp at Guitar Center, you have to keep in mind that they absolutely do not care what has been done to the amp- they just want your money. Mesa's policy is about the only thing that manufacturers can do to make sure there is a level playing field among all dealers while still having their stuff readily available (ie- not only in boutique shops).
A good example of how GC COULD run their business is like one of the local Portland Mesa dealers that I bought my M6 from- the salesman hooks the amp, guitar, and cab up and actually attends to you while you are playing (not looming over you, but consistently keeping check). This way the amps can be demoed, but it is the salesperson's responsibility to oversee and make sure the amps (and bass/cabinet/cables) are being used as intended.
We all love GC for the ability to essentially do whatever the hell we want without any supervision, but you can't complain when YOU are asked to pay the price for it in the end!
Karl
A good example of how GC COULD run their business is like one of the local Portland Mesa dealers that I bought my M6 from- the salesman hooks the amp, guitar, and cab up and actually attends to you while you are playing (not looming over you, but consistently keeping check). This way the amps can be demoed, but it is the salesperson's responsibility to oversee and make sure the amps (and bass/cabinet/cables) are being used as intended.
We all love GC for the ability to essentially do whatever the hell we want without any supervision, but you can't complain when YOU are asked to pay the price for it in the end!
Karl
- Nov 7, 2006
- 751
- 19
- Disclosures
- Endorsing-Trace Elliot,Peavey Basses,PedalTrain,Starkey inears
Bout once a year GC will have permission to mark down some Boogie stuff that's either been discontinued by GC or has been there a long time. It's usually during one of their big sales days unless thats changed recently...
Why do you think they don't sell much gear in the UK?
If US customers think they've got a rough deal they should see the prices of MB gear in the UK compared to the same items in the US, and don't anyone say it's down to shipping costs; no way. I priced the shipping cost of a single MB item from US to UK and it was quite cheap; nowhere near the massive increase in price.
I expect there are additional taxes. GB has had a policy of discouraging imports since the end of WWII.
As to those complaining about GC, why the hell do you go there? The locally owned music store gets most of my business, and he'll go pretty far to keep me happy. GC is just another Wal-Mart -- or do you hang out there, too?
I didn't buy my M/B from GC: it came from a real music store. And, no, I didn't get a discount off the floor demo I ended up with (they offered one in the box for the same price) but it's the best damn bass amp around, and I'm willing to pay for it.
Look at it this way: if price were the only criterion for buying something, we'd all be playing through Chinese crap. I admire companies who maintain their standards, even when I don't care for their products. Mesa/Boogie builds terrific gear, and you're not going to get the best for a low price.
As to those complaining about GC, why the hell do you go there? The locally owned music store gets most of my business, and he'll go pretty far to keep me happy. GC is just another Wal-Mart -- or do you hang out there, too?
I didn't buy my M/B from GC: it came from a real music store. And, no, I didn't get a discount off the floor demo I ended up with (they offered one in the box for the same price) but it's the best damn bass amp around, and I'm willing to pay for it.
Look at it this way: if price were the only criterion for buying something, we'd all be playing through Chinese crap. I admire companies who maintain their standards, even when I don't care for their products. Mesa/Boogie builds terrific gear, and you're not going to get the best for a low price.
I doubt that. GC is MB's only retailer. That'd be what you'd call MB stepping on their ****.
???? ONLY retailer?
Hmmm...so I bought a black market Mesa/Boogie. Wow -- they really do enforce their prices, because I paid list!
The restrictions you're talking about were an immediate post war measure which were relaxed in the 60s.
Import duty exists as in all countries, the value added tax is decreed by the European Union of which the UK is a member.
I could purchase at the rrp a 'Walkabout Scout' through a friend in the USA and have it shipped as a single item, pay UK taxes and duty and still save hundreds of £/$.
I went into this and priced everything up, the only thing that stopped me was the different voltage in the UK.
MB are losing a lot of sales UK sales with their attitude. I contacted MB regarding their pricing policy only to be insulted by the most stupid of excuses about this and that.
Are you thinking MB=Markbass? I think in this case it was supposed to be MesaBoogie.
I may be able to shed some light here.
Yes, M/B has "Pro-Net" price, which does set the groundwork for all dealers (large or small and regardless of location) to be on a more level playing field.
Yes, they do "frown upon" discounting the items below said price. Dealers also "frown upon" dipping below that price because, although M/B makes an incredible product(I use them myself), the margins are not wonderful.
I work for a retailer who carries M/B. We have, on rare occasions discounted items for "shop wear" or simply to move aging inventory. Mesa has no "legal" right to tell anyone what they can or can not sell product for. However, Mesa CAN strip dealerships of those who are not playing "fair" and are constantly undercutting and selling items below Pro-Net.
The dilemma of GC not discounting shop worn or demo units is likely due to not quite fully understanding the Pro-Net policy combined with the fact that they are fairly certain that while you may not be satisfied with that amp for the price, given its condition, the next guy may not balk at the tag at all.
Might I shamlessly suggest supporting a local independent retailer if at all possible? =)
Yes, M/B has "Pro-Net" price, which does set the groundwork for all dealers (large or small and regardless of location) to be on a more level playing field.
Yes, they do "frown upon" discounting the items below said price. Dealers also "frown upon" dipping below that price because, although M/B makes an incredible product(I use them myself), the margins are not wonderful.
I work for a retailer who carries M/B. We have, on rare occasions discounted items for "shop wear" or simply to move aging inventory. Mesa has no "legal" right to tell anyone what they can or can not sell product for. However, Mesa CAN strip dealerships of those who are not playing "fair" and are constantly undercutting and selling items below Pro-Net.
The dilemma of GC not discounting shop worn or demo units is likely due to not quite fully understanding the Pro-Net policy combined with the fact that they are fairly certain that while you may not be satisfied with that amp for the price, given its condition, the next guy may not balk at the tag at all.
Might I shamlessly suggest supporting a local independent retailer if at all possible? =)
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Thanks!
Folks who get the majority of their exercise jumping to conclusions may not take the time to read it. But, your link was well worth posting.
Edited to add: With a retail chain as large as Guitar Center, it is not at all uncommon for the corporate office to implement procedures for their store personnel that are strict and limiting. I don't find it at all difficult to believe that GC has tied the hands of store personnel when it comes to discounting Mesa/Boogie floor models. Their decisions are understandably unpopular here, but they do seem consistent with Guitar Center's corporate mindset; lowest common denominator "corporate-think" is one of the reasons I prefer to support local music retailers instead of big chains.
