Mesa-Boogie STUPID price control. I am mad!

[B-string]

JIMO so don't flame me, but no amp is so good that I (personally, understand) would support price fixing in an open market. I guess I'm just old?

 

[guy n. cognito]

Tell that to Levis, they paid big for price fixing. You can set a "Suggest MSRP" but not the out the door price. Maybe that applies to everyone Except Mesa or the MI industry (this I doubt, Mesa has just not been called on it).

To be "Used" it would have to be sold to an end user. It could remain new with a thousand hours of use so long as it was never sold to a end user.

Sigh, this again.......

You've greatly over-simplified the issue to an inaccurate conclusion:

http://gbr.pepperdine.edu/092/rpm.html

The attached article is fairly technical, but comprehensive.

 

[guy n. cognito]

JIMO so don't flame me, but no amp is so good that I (personally, understand) would support price fixing in an open market. I guess I'm just old?

One would need to understand the definition of "price-fixing" before he made that statement.

 

[Crabby]

What'll be funny is seeing which of the two is still a MB dealer in 12 months if they continue to do buisness as you describe.

Same store, just a different location.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Uh... what?

So if I want to try out an amp I have to guess if they have it and ask? That doesn't make any sense. Honestly, I think I played about 20 different amps before settling on the one I have now, and I ordered it online for the reason that I didn't want a "used" one. And even if there was an "adults room", which is a stupid idea on many levels, after someone played it, wouldn't it be "used"?

:scowl:

Yes, if someone (especially a child) walks into a store and wants to wank on a $1500 amplifier, someone of authority should have to approve and supervise the request.

Just because a car has been test-driven doesn't make it "used." Typically, a consumer good is considered used when title passes from the retailer to the buyer. An exception is make for items that have seen a significant amount of "testing."

 

[tombowlus]

One would need to understand the definition of "price-fixing" before he made that statement.

A lot of manufacturers employ a fixed-price model. As I understand it, one of the reasons for doing this is to level the playing field for dealers.

That being said, you would think that discounts for floor/demo models would be appropriate (provided that the dealer was not abusing the practice and trying to sell a bunch of units as "floor models").

 

[guy n. cognito]

A lot of manufacturers employ a fixed-price model. As I understand it, one of the reasons for doing this is to level the playing field for dealers.

That being said, you would think that discounts for floor/demo models would be appropriate (provided that the dealer was not abusing the practice and trying to sell a bunch of units as "floor models").

Read the link I provided. Setting a minimum retail price does not bear the same negative implications as the term "price-fixing" implies. Furthermore, it's not illegal under most circumstances, like this one.

 

[tombowlus]

Read the link I provided. Setting a minimum retail price does not bear the same negative implications as the term "price-fixing" implies. Furthermore, it's not illegal under most circumstances, like this one.

Righto. I should have said that a number of companies adhere to a fairly strict minimum retail price policy for the reasons I stated above.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Righto. I should have said that a number of companies adhere to a fairly strict minimum retail price policy for the reasons I stated above.

Yep. I was just making it clear that's it legal and different from price-fixing. This topic seems to come up about once a month.....

 

[Dave]

Weird. I got my Walkabout as a floor model from a GC discounted a good bit, though this was probably 5 years ago.

 

[B-string]

One would need to understand the definition of "price-fixing" before he made that statement.

Thank you for the link as I always look to educate. Vertical or horizontal I still view it personally as a "fixing" in a free market system. I see it is under review again so I guess I am not alone (unless that is also a poor assumption)?
All still does not sway my view that I would not support an entity that says" We are XYZ and thou shall not sell our product for less than $_____.__ or you will not be allowed to sell our product. Since you indeed flamed my views anyway....carry on McDuff.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Thank you for the link as I always look to educate. Vertical or horizontal I still view it personally as a "fixing" in a free market system. I see it is under review again so I guess I am not alone (unless that is also a poor assumption)?
All still does not sway my view that I would not support an entity that says" We are XYZ and thou shall not sell our product for less than $_____.__ or you will not be allowed to sell our product. Since you indeed flamed my views anyway....carry on McDuff.

So, what about a company like Carvin that sells their product direct? Should laws be written giving consumers the ability to dictate their own price? Why should they be allowed to set a minimum price, but a company that chooses to use retail distribution be accused of "price-fixing?"

You are welcome to have whatever opinion you choose, but your opinion is incorrect based on current law.

 

[MrGotBass]

Yes, if someone (especially a child) walks into a store and wants to wank on a $1500 amplifier, someone of authority should have to approve and supervise the request.

Just because a car has been test-driven doesn't make it "used." Typically, a consumer good is considered used when title passes from the retailer to the buyer. An exception is make for items that have seen a significant amount of "testing."

Well of all the times I've been to a GC, the only "wanker" I've ever seen was some older guy playing blues-guitar way to loud and way too poorly, so maybe I'm seeing it through different eyes. The idea that I need a baby sitter to test out an amp just seems a bit silly to me.

 

[B-string]

So, what about a company like Carvin that sells their product direct? Should laws be written giving consumers the ability to dictate their own price? Why should they be allowed to set a minimum price, but a company that chooses to use retail distribution be accused of "price-fixing?"

You are welcome to have whatever opinion you choose, but your opinion is incorrect based on current law.

Fair enough as laws are fluid. As far as Carvin they sell direct only, they don't rent out or demo a new product. After the product has received damage, demand the first purchaser of the damaged, aged equipment pay full price (it is still new until sold by the dealer, this is not in question). Do you consider this a fair practice for the consumer? It is a great deal for the dealer, they can hide behind their Dealer's Agreement.

 

[mike_v_s]

Fair enough as laws are fluid. As far as Carvin they sell direct only, they don't rent out or demo a new product. After the product has received damage, demand the first purchaser of the damaged, aged equipment pay full price (it is still new until sold by the dealer, this is not in question). Do you consider this a fair practice for the consumer? It is a great deal for the dealer, they can hide behind their Dealer's Agreement.

I think it's just fine for the consumer. They have the option to not buy it. End of conundrum.

Mike

 

[js1]

So, how could you rent a Mesa amp? New equipment is put in inventory, rented, then sold at a discount. I guess it would only work if the rental company bought it from an authorized dealer, and wasn't a dealer themselves...

js

 

[mikeswals]

And thus starts the end of the free enterprise system? I wonder how long a "Brick and Mortar" shop will last when they can't markup a set of strings?

This thought completely misses the idea. While Mesa has a fixed selling price, but it's a relatively competitive set selling price.

For instance, when the Bass 400+ were $1599. But hey the Ampeg SVT msrp is $2399, and the sale price is $1699. What a deal!
Looking at Ampeg's Heritage line (USA built product), their sale prices are on par with Mesa's retail prices.

I think it's just fine for the consumer. They have the option to not buy it. End of conundrum.

Exactly!

 

[lowfreek]

Really too bad you can't talk yourself into considering a purchase on the used market. It takes some patience and diligence, but you can score "as new" stuff for small bucks (figuratively). I've scored two pristine M-Pulse 600's for right around $800 each, one came in a Road Ready ATA, the other in the Mesa head case, and both had foot controllers and 3+ years left on the warranties. I also scored my Walkabout Scout, also pristine, with just over 4 years of warranty left, for eight bills. That's $500 under retail. Works for me.

ETA: Just remembered -- on that second M-Pulse, I ended up ebaying the head case for a hundred bucks, so I more or less paid $700 for the amp. I was happy.

 

[sleepytime]

Well of all the times I've been to a GC, the only "wanker" I've ever seen was some older guy playing blues-guitar way to loud and way too poorly, so maybe I'm seeing it through different eyes. The idea that I need a baby sitter to test out an amp just seems a bit silly to me.

This has been my experience also. Old guys with no intention of buying (having only $3.47 to their name) just hanging out because they're bored. Beating their latest favorite riff they can't play to death, looking around to see who's impressed. Purposely abusing equipment while their friends giggle. Carelessly dinging topline equipment until, finally, it's time to go back home to their messy rooms and wank on their starter-kit guitar and amp.

Meanwhile, at the counter, the 15 year old kid looks on disapprovingly as he gets out his credit card to pay for his "new" gear.

 

[mikeddd]

I'm with you 100%! As far as I'm concerned, if it's physically sitting out on the floor where anyone can twiddle knobs/kick the grill/sit on it/put their coffee on top of it/bump it with their shopping cart, then it's NOT NEW. "NEW" means SEALED in the box, with the plastic still on it.

The exception to this, obviously are musical instruments themselves which must be handled/played before purchase.

I would never buy a used piece of electronic equipment at full price. That goes for amps/stompboxes/rack gear/TVs/DVD player/etc.

I would buy a used amp from a TBer before I'd buy a "new" floor model at full price from any retail store. You can be relatively sure that you're getting an honest assessment of it's use and condition. I.E. "I bought it new two years ago, it's been gigged a dozen times but mostly just sits in my basement." vs. "Ah, yeah, it's new...only been on the floor a week (23 week in reality) and nobody's ever plugged it in (some kid ran a cable from the speaker output into the power amp in and the amp got repaired last week).

IMHO, the policy of selling floor models like they are new is bullcrap, period. The GC people do not supervise the equipment hardly at all and I've found things like:

-Amps left on all day
-Amps plugged in with speaker cables as instrument leads and instrument cables as speaker leads


And more. Abused floor model gear is not new