Mesa Boogie Walkabout Mega-thread Part 10

[adam montminy]

I think two Walkabouts with two Hathor 212s would be an easy load in. The hard part would be resisting the temptation to vertically stack the Hathors.

That sounds like a recipe for serious hearing loss. I can't believe that anyone would ever need more stage volume than one of those cabs. I play mine through one Hathor 1533 and it can easily make my ears hurt standing in front of it. I think any of the singers I play with would throw me out of the band if I played that loud.

 

[Al Kraft]

That sounds like a recipe for serious hearing loss. I can't believe that anyone would ever need more stage volume than one of those cabs. I play mine through one Hathor 1533 and it can easily make my ears hurt standing in front of it. I think any of the singers I play with would throw me out of the band if I played that loud.

So the answer to a more powerful WA (which sort of translates to "getting what I already like, just louder") may actually be a new cab...or two... It certainly worked out that way for me with my WA and the Berg CN212.

 

[bumble yeti]

The 800 has the same filter topology, just not with the variable compound part.

Yeah, it has helped me understand what I might be up against trying to recreate a newer version of the same amp... perhaps there are better approaches that appeal to some of the needs/wants/desires of a wider range of players who might prefer moving forward from the constraints of a purely legacy amp. Maybe, maybe not.

How about this solution for a louder Walkabout experience, beloved tone fully intact, currently available to any and all:

1) Walkabout 1 sits atop two 8-ohm bass cabinets, 4-ohm total load, more efficient cabs desired

2) Walkabout 2 sits atop two additional 8-ohm bass cabinets, 4-ohm total load, more efficient cabs desired

3) Effects loop send of Walkabout 1 feeds effects loop return of Walkabout two.

In this way, a Walkabout preamp feeds Walkabout power amps, and Walkabout signal path remains pure to double the normal amount of speakers. This may not be the greatest setup in terms of portability, but if one must have more Walkabout tone, double the Walkabout gear. The setup can still be portable with a cart, which many use anyway with multiple cabs.

Hmm. Just thinking out loud, what about a WA preamp that feeds 2 WA power sections that could provide 300 watts per side or 600 watts bridged? Is that possible, agedhorse? Would it sound similar? How much would it weigh and how much would it cost?

 

[the yeti]

So the answer to a more powerful WA (which sort of translates to "getting what I already like, just louder") may actually be a new cab...or two... It certainly worked out that way for me with my WA and the Berg CN212.

i've been thinking this for a while now. i've never heard anyone say they need an svt to have more power, it's roughly the same wattage as the wa.

 

[agedhorse]

Hmm. Just thinking out loud, what about a WA preamp that feeds 2 WA power sections that could provide 300 watts per side or 600 watts bridged? Is that possible, agedhorse? Would it sound similar? How much would it weigh and how much would it cost?

This is one possibility, but would not be able to drive a 2 ohm load in bridge mode. The cost increase would be substantial.

 

[lomo]

So the answer to a more powerful WA (which sort of translates to "getting what I already like, just louder") may actually be a new cab...or two... It certainly worked out that way for me with my WA and the Berg CN212.

This is the correct, immediate answer. However, being human, many of us dream of having our cake, without calories, and eating it, too

I'm not playing out these days, but when I did, it took 3x112 cabs for the Walkabout to provide comfortable volume for me in the bars I played without PA. I was simply not willing to carry that much box when there there were boxes 1/3 the weight (and about half the bulk) that could provide the same volume with a more powerful (and much smaller) head. These days, a Walkabout is plenty, cause the jam buddies are chill and all I have to do is get over a very reasonable, dynamic drummer who plays an electronic kit. I can do that with my Walkabout combo or easily with 2 Barefaced One10 cabs that weigh 15lbs each; they belong on the list of "wonders of the world" ...somewhere between the hanging gardens of Babylon and Niagara Falls.

I would still probably be suckered into buying anything new that has significant genetic input from the Walkabout though......'cause it's not always about "need".

 

[bumble yeti]

This is one possibility, but would not be able to drive a 2 ohm load in bridge mode. The cost increase would be substantial.

At that much power, you'd think it wouldn't need to drive a 2 ohm load. Yeah, figured it'd cost a lot BUT you've got guys buying 2 of them and hooking them together so it's got to be cheaper than that.

 

[McFarlin]

That sounds like a recipe for serious hearing loss. I can't believe that anyone would ever need more stage volume than one of those cabs. I play mine through one Hathor 1533 and it can easily make my ears hurt standing in front of it. I think any of the singers I play with would throw me out of the band if I played that loud.

TLDR: I'm jealous you can get by with only a 1533 and a Walkabout.

I know without the smileys it was impossible to convey any element of sarcasm in my post.
But, sure, it's a recipe for serious hearing loss if you decide to run it at maximum output. I would never use a rig that size, but I can imagine a need for it. Running it at full output isn't the point. I think the idea is to have a more supportive low end and still get decent output while hopefully reducing limiting factors like thermal compression.

You know we all have different output needs depending on varying playing situations and personal preference (desired frequency profiles). And if you are in a situation where a WA and a single 4-ohms 15+mid cab is more than enough (especially outdoors), consider yourself lucky.

A few years ago my loud rig was a Walkabout through a GB NX2-212T. That's an efficient cab that was a great tonal match with the WA, and that cab could handle a pretty good pounding from the higher end of the Walkabout output. There were a few shows (record store, small bar) where that rig had to carry the room with a fairly loud instrumental rock band. Things usually started out fine, but the modest output, ear fatigue, and probably thermal compression (+me increasing volume) contributed to an overdrive sound that I wasn't after. So, I was left with a fuzzy, mid-dominant sound that didn't suit the mix that well (and probably left me fighting the keyboard frequencies a bit). I didn't provide the supportive low-end that would better benefit the mix. Turning down gain and boosting bass frequencies didn't help. Extra clean wattage and more cone area (and maybe cabinet internal volume) would have.

I'm very protective of my hearing, probably to the extent that my friends and bandmates could consider it obsessive or paranoid. So, I sold the 212, found a Baer ML112 and proclaimed, "I shouldn't play in any situation where this rig won't be enough." And it often is enough, with PA support.
But, that one gig happened (a few times, actually). Show up to a new "venue" in another city, and surprise!--they will only use the PA for vocals or acoustic instruments. And the drummer can do nothing other than punish his kit. The ML112, this time with a Streamliner 900, was audible--but mids, mids, mids.

And, of course, the following week in a different ensemble I could carry the room with the Walkabout and a little Wizzy 12 (still my favorite amp/cab pairing).

The genre, the other players, the room, venue personnel, the stage, indoor vs. outdoor--so many factors can change what one individual might need to do the job.
Consider trying to mix with a stubborn guitarist who loves his octave effects and an equally stubborn keys player with a wandering left hand. I find the only way to go is down. And I make that work (moving away from a mid-dominant sound) by adding more box and driver.

Then consider the massive amount of volume-is-our-livelihood Black Sabbath clones floating around during the last 20 years. 600W and a 412 worth of Hathor wouldn't be enough.

Some folks just need more clean, supportive lows--sometimes for hours.

(One day I'll find a way out of this trap. But the only people around here playing music I enjoy also like it loud. And the quieter groups I enjoy are mostly out of my league.)

 

[wateroftyne]

Again, for anyone hankering for a WA with more headroom, I urge you to check this out.

 

[adam montminy]

And, of course, the following week in a different ensemble I could carry the room with the Walkabout and a little Wizzy 12 (still my favorite amp/cab pairing).

I still haven't gotten around too trying a Wizzy with my WA. I know that was one of Tom B's favorites for a while too. Is EA still making those? I rarely ever see them for sale used.

 

[McFarlin]

They are still made, but I only see them selling used every few months (among several sites). And the used versions are nearly always 4ohms (which was fine for me).
I often wish I hadn't sold the Wizzy, but I think the Hathor 1203 is filling that role (only now I have no Walkabout).

 

[Zonked]

Again, for anyone hankering for a WA with more headroom, I urge you to check this out.

Wow! Looks like a great quality yet very affordable Walkabout replacement with more headroom!

The only thing that I am not sure of in the Handbox R-400 is the level of mid control.

You have piqued my interest nonetheless. Thanks!!

 

[wateroftyne]

Wow! Looks like a great quality yet very affordable Walkabout replacement with more headroom!

The only thing that I am not sure of in the Handbox R-400 is the level of mid control.

You have piqued my interest nonetheless. Thanks!!

Yep, the mid thing is a fair comment, but check the thread out and you'll see it wasn't an issue for me (and others).

 

[kringle77]

With an nv610, the wa is just enough for my gigs. That's using a brought on hp filter to give me a Little more headroom. Using my 212, it's not enough. Having run the wa do into a large poweramp, I find that the di out which uses the entire circuit path, minus the power amp of course, gets me enough of the time. So, basically do that. Just have some kind of MASTER master volume just before the power amp so that you can work the preamp gain and tube driver section to get your overdrive. In my opinion, the way the power amp overdrives, in a smooth way, being fed by two other overdrive sections, 'M more more easily mimiced by high passing the band's signal to begin with.

 

[Worldeeeter]

Wow! Looks like a great quality yet very affordable Walkabout replacement with more headroom!

The only thing that I am not sure of in the Handbox R-400 is the level of mid control.

You have piqued my interest nonetheless. Thanks!!

Mine is on the way now. I am looking forward to testing this theory.

 

[agedhorse]

At that much power, you'd think it wouldn't need to drive a 2 ohm load. Yeah, figured it'd cost a lot BUT you've got guys buying 2 of them and hooking them together so it's got to be cheaper than that.

Certainly true, but the number using 2 at a time is very small.

This scenario would share the same (operated in dual, not bridge mode) because everything scales one to one. In bridge mode however, it would not scale one to one because the amp sections would be in series, so damping factor (which is already kind of low) would get even lower, and any feedback would be applied less equally (there may be some solutions to this). Also, the heat would be doubled, power transformer and filter caps increase, so the size of the chassis would need to widen to a fill 17 inches like the Carbines.

I'm not convinced that enough folks would feel comfortable paying another $500-$700 plus the increased size & weight to get this additional performance... any thoughts on this scenario?

 

[Zonked]

Mine is on the way now. I am looking forward to testing this theory.

Please let us know how the Handbox R-400 works for you. Hoping it is the answer I was looking for and at a great price to boot !!! Thanks so much!

 

[kringle77]

2 rackspaces is just fine. 600 to 1000watts transformer power amp.

 

[bumble yeti]

Certainly true, but the number using 2 at a time is very small.

This scenario would share the same (operated in dual, not bridge mode) because everything scales one to one. In bridge mode however, it would not scale one to one because the amp sections would be in series, so damping factor (which is already kind of low) would get even lower, and any feedback would be applied less equally (there may be some solutions to this). Also, the heat would be doubled, power transformer and filter caps increase, so the size of the chassis would need to widen to a fill 17 inches like the Carbines.

I'm not convinced that enough folks would feel comfortable paying another $500-$700 plus the increased size & weight to get this additional performance... any thoughts on this scenario?

I am hoping some of the TBers who want a more powerful WA will chime in. Maybe tomorrow?
It seems to me, following this thread through the years, the majority of these folks want to run it clean and funky and, while that sounds wonderful, it just doesn't have the gig power for it. I feel it needs pushed until it compresses. It doesn't have to get dirty but it works it's best magic when it's pushed.
Like I posted previously agedhorse, I'm very, very happy with it as is, even knowing the limitations. I use mine mainly to play/record at home but when I do gig, I usually DI to the FOH and mike the cab, if they'll let me, and use it as a monitor. To me adding a really efficient 4 ohm 2x12 voiced similarly to the Scout could be interesting.
It's great that you're so actively engaged!

 

[Al Kraft]

Certainly true, but the number using 2 at a time is very small.

This scenario would share the same (operated in dual, not bridge mode) because everything scales one to one. In bridge mode however, it would not scale one to one because the amp sections would be in series, so damping factor (which is already kind of low) would get even lower, and any feedback would be applied less equally (there may be some solutions to this). Also, the heat would be doubled, power transformer and filter caps increase, so the size of the chassis would need to widen to a fill 17 inches like the Carbines.

I'm not convinced that enough folks would feel comfortable paying another $500-$700 plus the increased size & weight to get this additional performance... any thoughts on this scenario?

My sense is that it would be a novel machine (in an old school/retro kind of way) and you'd have at least a small guaranteed market that was already convinced or at least highly interested (proportions there are hard to predict). I have to admit that I love dragging out the Carbines on occasion, but have become a bit spoiled with the well done class D offerings from Mesa and others. When a head weighs almost as much as a cab, it makes me ask myself how much extra performance am I actually getting.

I'd love to see this kind of head built, but you and a few others in the industry have set convenience, price/value and performance benchmarks with the class D gear that's hard to ignore. It would be unfortunate to spend a lot of time and money developing a novel amp only to find your own benchmarks have made it less than profitable in the broad market.