Mesa Boogie Walkabout Mega-thread Part 10

[lpdeluxe]

EdwardofHuncot, that's interesting, because the Godin A5 is the only bass I own that I've not put TI Jazz Flats on.

EQ meant rolling back the bass quite a bit, leaving the mids alone and backing off some on the treble. I did a bit of tweaking on the bass, too, but I just tinkered with it until I liked the sound...in other words, I didn't take an organized approach.

I liked the sound, but after spending a couple of hours jamming with my guitarist on our repertoire, I decided that it wasn't workable in the context of what we were doing -- there was too much going on sonically, and not enough note definition and articulation. I am confident there's appropriate material out there for that sound, but perhaps my own style is not a good vehicle.

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

EdwardofHuncot, that's interesting, because the Godin A5 is the only bass I own that I've not put TI Jazz Flats on.

EQ meant rolling back the bass quite a bit, leaving the mids alone and backing off some on the treble. I did a bit of tweaking on the bass, too, but I just tinkered with it until I liked the sound...in other words, I didn't take an organized approach.

I liked the sound, but after spending a couple of hours jamming with my guitarist on our repertoire, I decided that it wasn't workable in the context of what we were doing -- there was too much going on sonically, and not enough note definition and articulation. I am confident there's appropriate material out there for that sound, but perhaps my own style is not a good vehicle.

I haven't really taken much time yet either, but your assessment fits closely with what I did. The A-5 produces a *lot* more low end than what I'm used to, and will actually feedback at higher volumes. It really sounds better if some of those lows are rolled off. This is where the para-eq on the Walkabout shines for me.

And ditto on the last part... I love the sound and sorta' delayed note articulation, but I just don't have a regular gig where I can put the A-5 in what I consider a proper context. Works well with an acoustic/indy-folk group I play with every so often. Doesn't suit bluegrass gigs or pop cover bands at all.

 

[corsa]

Boy, I'd expect the DI to be line level, not mic; but I guess I could be wrong.
I've used Redheads before, they DI well. I can't remember if they have DI level control, but I'm surprised that simply moving the xlr cable didn't work.
I'd have wagered it should have.
Maybe the cable is sketchy.

Sorry so long since the last report - the ankle recovery ran into a snag. Doing better now though and got over to the studio today to check.

The Tascam US1800 has four line-ins on the back and groups them in pairs. For each pair, there is a level switch that lets you select -10dBV or +4 dBu. It turns out that I was set to +4 to accommodate a hot keyboard signal on the other line-in of the pair so that was definitely part of the problem. However, switching back to -10 did not completely cure the problem. I still have to have the DI Level knob maxed to the right and the Master Volume relatively loud to get a good signal. Just not quite as loud as before.

There's the possibility of a sketchy cable but I won't be able to test that for a while yet. It worked fine with the Redhead and has had zero stress put on it since that time.

In the mean time, can anyone explain to me why it's a good idea to have your DI output be interactive with your master volume? It seems like any time I wanted a volume change on stage, I'd be fouling up the mix at the board.

 

[agedhorse]

The Tascam US1800 has four line-ins on the back and groups them in pairs. For each pair, there is a level switch that lets you select -10dBV or +4 dBu. It turns out that I was set to +4 to accommodate a hot keyboard signal on the other line-in of the pair so that was definitely part of the problem. However, switching back to -10 did not completely cure the problem. I still have to have the DI Level knob maxed to the right and the Master Volume relatively loud to get a good signal.

Since this seems to come up quite a bit on a variety of amps, not just the Mesa amp you have, let me try to explain what is happening and why.

Your Tascam interface is designed for line level input only. There are 2 different line levels used depending on the market, they arre +4dBu and -10dB. +4dB is the professional standard that is used on all pro gear and most semi-pro and prosumer gear. -10dB is the older prosumer level that was common within the old home studio gear and was pretty much the defacto standard for Tascam as it allowed easy interface to the -10dB standard that the HiFi world had embraced going back to the 1950's. Since it was Tascam's primary standard, they are still supporting it via the sensitivity switch.

On bass amp DI's, they were originally designed to plug directly into the input of a console or mic pre, so most evolved from providing a mic level signal. At the time, even many pro consoles were unable to handle full pro level +4dBu (with dynamics) signals without overload or clipping of the input stage, even with the modest pads they were equipped with. Even today, many consoles (mostly non-pro level) struggle with +4dBu input levels on the standard input channels. To deal with this, bass amp DI's evolved to generally deliver a hot mic level signal of around -20 to -30dBu which provides a good compromise between performance and overload. Some amps also provide a full line level output as part of an extended feature set, but not always. Bass amps are generally not intended to drive an interface directly, which is where your problem stems from.

Incidently, standard pro line level +4dBu nominal signal levels can also have a maximum output level of +26dBu which is far beyond what most of the non-pro level consoles AND many recording interfaces can handle. A pro level console used in the real touring world will be fine with these levels but that's not what 99% of you guys are using as they start in the >$10k range and go (way) up from there)

Hope this helps.

 

[sunbeast]

In the mean time, can anyone explain to me why it's a good idea to have your DI output be interactive with your master volume? It seems like any time I wanted a volume change on stage, I'd be fouling up the mix at the board.

The reason given by Mesa specifically regarding the DI on the Walkabout is to get the whole tube signal path (mojo) in the DI signal. The second tube in the WA is actually a driver for the power amp and comes after the Master Volume in the signal path- the DI taps off of this signal. Part of the unique beauty (or a weakness depending on your particular taste!) of the Walkabout is that the harder you push the Master Volume the more the second tube gets driven and compressed, similar to a tube amp (or at least closer in practice than just a single tube gain stage as found in most hybrid bass amps). When I've used my WA live I've always had it pumping pretty hard, so there wasn't much modulation of the volume happening- never had an issue getting a strong enough DI signal to a soundboard either (usually running the DI Level at noon or so).

If you want a pre-Master DI, Mesa will give you instructions on how to mod your WA to route the DI straight from the preamp (or at least they have in the past). The downside being that you won't get the full sweetness of the amp to your interface that way. When I record live I usually take a DI signal before the amp and blend it with a mic'ed signal so it would usually be little matter to me. I've only recorded with the WA in situations where I was just monitoring myself with headphones though- it is probably the best amp I've ever had for that specifically because of the way the DI is routed!

 

[sunbeast]

FWIW, the interfaces I've recorded with using my WA all have built-in mic preamps, so that might explain why I've never had an issue getting enough level (forgot to check it again last I had my interface at home!)

 

[gastric]

If you want a pre-Master DI, Mesa will give you instructions on how to mod your WA to route the DI straight from the preamp (or at least they have in the past). The downside being that you won't get the full sweetness of the amp to your interface that way. When I record live I usually take a DI signal before the amp and blend it with a mic'ed signal so it would usually be little matter to me. I've only recorded with the WA in situations where I was just monitoring myself with headphones though- it is probably the best amp I've ever had for that specifically because of the way the DI is routed!

I'm assuming you can grab a preamp-only signal from the FX SEND jack, and simply not patch back into the FX RETURN. If so, and assuming it sends the right amount of signal to a typical DI box, no mods necessary.

 

[agedhorse]

The effects send is also line level, and when used with a typical passive DI will deliver about -30dBu to the console. A typical DI steps the voltage down through a transformer which is how the transformation occurs allowing a higher impedance output to drive a lower impedance input ( even though it will do the same thing with a low impedance signal like from the fx send jack)

 

[McFarlin]

Not exactly relevant to the current discussion, but I finally got the ML112 out for a show. Expecting to play the small indoor stage I thought it would be about perfect, but they put us outside. Our 165W Walkabout and the ML112 with PA support held up pretty great. Ran all settings flat with very slight boosts at 55 and 125, then a slight cut at 2K--DI level about 11:30, gain just below 12:00, master at 12:30. I'll probably use the NX2-212T next time, but I think it worked.

 

[sunbeast]

Oddly, the FX loop is still post-Master, but pre-driver tube! So you still have the problem of your DI signal being tied to the Master, but without the benefit of that extra tube on the tone.

 

[gastric]

Oddly, the FX loop is still post-Master, but pre-driver tube! So you still have the problem of your DI signal being tied to the Master, but without the benefit of that extra tube on the tone.

Ahhh, too funny. It's always a mystery how MESA wires their rear I/O.

 

[uaiogt]

Here´s my new rig

I have just used it once but fell in love right away.

New Rig

• uaiogt
• Jun 23, 2014

Walkabout and Ampeg

 

[corsa]

agedhorse and sunbeast - thank you both! Tons of great info in these posts.

It would not have occurred to me to run a DI signal through a mic preamp but it sounds like that's exactly what I need to do. This gives me a great basis to move forward more intelligently with my home recording.

Also really great info about the Mesa signal path. It still seems peculiar to me based on the way my other amps operate but, then again, it doesn't sound anything like my other amps either so it looks like I'll just learn to accommodate it.

Thanks again for the help and thanks to all who contributed on this.

 

[sunbeast]

Good luck Corsa- the Walkabout is a bit of an odd bird in lots of ways, but as this never-ending mega thread will attest they definitely got something right when they designed it that keeps us all coming back!

 

[BBQV]

Here´s my new rig

I have just used it once but fell in love right away.

New Rig

• uaiogt
• Jun 23, 2014

Walkabout and Ampeg

I use exactly the same setup and it sounds sweet!
If I need more I'll add another cab, and it takes effects really well too.
It's a winner!

 

[agedhorse]

Glad to help.

Understanding the history and evolution of pro audio as well as the musical instrument amp world helps to understand why particular standards became standards to begin with.

 

[slofut]

Not exactly relevant to the current discussion, but I finally got the ML112 out for a show. Expecting to play the small indoor stage I thought it would be about perfect, but they put us outside. Our 165W Walkabout and the ML112 with PA support held up pretty great. Ran all settings flat with very slight boosts at 55 and 125, then a slight cut at 2K--DI level about 11:30, gain just below 12:00, master at 12:30. I'll probably use the NX2-212T next time, but I think it worked.

Damn Dude,
This is some serious music! Way cool. Does your band play all originals? Or do you revamp some covers?
And how do you play with the goobers on stage like that...

Just played this clip on my stereo and realized it's the theme from the movie. Duh... you guys kill...

Yep, just caught the YT vids, I get it now... You guys are sick, drummer is def ON! Omael!
Sorry for slightly hijacking the thread.

 

[McFarlin]

Thanks!
Yes, it's all covers/arrangements of movie themes and exotica for now. We are recording/releasing what we can as series of EPs over the next 8 months, then hopefully we'll continue with original tunes. Omael is definitely one of my favorites.
Our guest dancers were good friends responding to my attempt at getting folks closer and dancing. I thought it was hilarious.

 

[slofut]

Thanks!
Yes, it's all covers/arrangements of movie themes and exotica for now. We are recording/releasing what we can as series of EPs over the next 8 months, then hopefully we'll continue with original tunes. Omael is definitely one of my favorites.
Our guest dancers were good friends responding to my attempt at getting folks closer and dancing. I thought it was hilarious.

Ok, I'm glad they were invited on stage. They're (like me) too white to be dancing! Did you catch the drink pass between the legs, I 'bout lost it!
I passed that vid around to my buds...

 

[McFarlin]

Ok, I'm glad they were invited on stage. They're (like me) too white to be dancing! Did you catch the drink pass between the legs, I 'bout lost it!
I passed that vid around to my buds...

Funny thing about their dancing is they are all, by our standards, outstanding musicians and songwriters. The tall guy built my bass.
Thanks for passing it on.
You should check out some of their vids: search Opposite Day (try finding Current Currency Current for some bass chops) or Invincible Czars