• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Mesa M6 Carbine Mega-Thread Pt Deux

Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't have the mesa head case for the M6; but I do for one of my Walkabouts.
Yes, it's big; tho with the WA, not *thaaaat* big. With the M6, it would be bigger compared to the skb 2 space it's currently in.
Big +1

The SKB 2spc rack is just perfect, and light weight. Mesa is NOT known for building lightweight stuff... not by a LONG shot. They build their stuff like tanks, and it generally weighs about the same. Personally, I don't want to lug a tank around since I still move all my own stuff, so I'm sacrificing a little aesthetics and sticking with the lighter and less bulky stuff. :)
 
At the wedding last weekend in a medium-large sized room with low ceilings and lots of carpet, I had a real hard time getting a sound I liked out of the M6/Acme Low B2. I didn't mess enough with it. First mistake was not backing off on the gain. I was trying to engage as much tube as possible and kept the gain between 12:00 and 3:00, At that level gain, I could hardly have the master on at all, maybe 8:00, not close to 9:00. Only engaged the flat, 4 and 5 presets. At one point, I had the bass almost to 8:00 and it was still exceptionally boomy and muddy. My next gig, I'll try backing off on the gain first. Was hoping for a better sound and was somewhat disappointed.
 
Ok, I did some A/B/C testing with the Mesa, Jan, and the Tung-Sol.

Quick note: The Jan is a 5751, but supposedly it's a particularly high gain one, so fairly comparable to a 12ax7.

Here are the comments on each one from the Tube Store where I got them...

Legend:
Manufacturer/Model, Microphonics, Noise(Hiss, Pop, Hum), Musical Detail & Dynamics

Tung-Sol/12AX7, 5, 4, 5
JAN-Philips/5751, 5, 5, 4

Tung-Sol 12AX7 - There are only so many ways to describe tube tone and most have become cliches. The Tung-Sol 12AX7 has the gain and drive of a Chinese 12AX7 and the pure tone of a Mullard or Brimar from the U.K. I've had two people come to me recently with amps they thought were in need of complete overhauls. In both cases, careful examination revealed no serious problems and all the tubes "tested" as good. At the end of the day, I replaced the NOS Mullard and RCA pre-amps (one in each amp) with a reissue Tung-Sol 12AX7. In both cases the owners were very impressed and thought that their amps had been restored to full health. Believe it or Not.

JAN-Philips 5751 - Now here’s a surprise, and a good one at that. The 5751 is typically referred to as “the lower gain” 12AX7. The fact is they are just dual triodes with the same pin-out as others in the 12AX7 family. This particular batch of NOS 5751 fails to perform as most 5751 tubes. It’s not lower gain, it’s not darker. These JAN-Philips 5751 tubes are one of the best dual triode tubes I’ve ever heard. They have nearly 12AX7 gain, extremely low noise, and frequency response that covers any audio application. They sound good in everything I’ve tried them in but particularly shine in single ended, simple amp circuits. Good examples would be a Fender Champ, tweed Princeton, Gibson GA-5 or any amp that has a preamp, power tube and rectifier. One of the best deals available in an NOS 12AX7, is actually a 5751!

Results:
Tung-Sol: I definitely heard a little less noise and microphonics with Tung-Sol, a modest tonal improvement, and if anything, it might have been even hotter than the stock Mesa Chinese (Sovtek, I believe, tho Mesa branded on the tube) 12ax7-a. Not night/day at all, but a noticeable improvement overall.

Jan: This one was dead silent from a microphonics standpoint, but it also didn't have the musical dynamics of the Tung-Sol or even the Mesa. A noticeably more fundamental tone. It also does have a noticeable gain reduction, but with an amp as hot as the M6, that really isn't any big deal. If it had better tone, I probably woulda' left it in there just for the extra quiet operation. Make no mistake, it did sound very good, in fact, for someone looking for a slightly less dynamic tone, it'd be a great option.

I decided to leave the Tung-Sol in there. Very low microphonics (though not completely silent), great tone, and great gain.

No, for all you hiss-talkers reading this, no significant hiss reduction. If I put my head right in front of the cab, I can still hear hiss coming from the tweeter, but at least from my perspective, it was never a problem before, and while the TS and Jan may have slightly reduced this, it wasn't enough to talk about. What that tells me is, whatever hiss is being produced, is being produced before the tube. The Mesa tube may possibly add a touch, but again, not enough to find significant fault with.

Conclusion:
Except for some extra microphonics, I gotta' say the stock Chinese tube is not a bad one. It has great tone and gain. If I'd known this before I bought these tubes, I'm not sure the swap woulda' been worth turning all those screws. Yeah, the Tung-Sol is a better tube, but again, it's not a night/day thing.

Anyway, FWIW. :)
 
I'll be watching carefully for any further tube swaps. If I could 'tame' the tone of my M6 somehow(I did try everything suggested, and more, BTW, thanks) I would rescue it from consignment at my local dealer! Yep, gave up. I'm not giving it away though, so it'll probably be there awhile.
I have simply not been able to get a good P bass tone with it. But it rocks a J bass, or a HB/HB bass really well-adds character in the mids that those type of basses sometimes lack. I suspect that Mesa had exactly this in mind during development. P bass players are fewer than used to be the case, so they built it to 'pump up' the tone of the more modern sounding basses available now. IMO of course. Pure speculation.
So please, swap away, :hyper:
 
Interesting info on the tube rolling, Vic. I've been very happy with the M6 and had been running the gain at noon most of the time and experimented with it just past noon for a while. This weekend I ran it at about 11 o'clock and I really dug the sound. Master had to come up a bit, but there was more headroom available, not that it was needed.:D Bottom tight and it took a little edge of the high end which this amp has in spades.

For the "limited" knobs available for adjustment, this thing sure has a lot of tones inside it with just slight variations on the gain and combination of the EQ settings.:cool:
 
Vic:

Any chance of your review that with an EH tube? Always preferred the EH in my Kern.
I've used EH tubes before back when I had a Walkabout, and arguably, I'd say the Tung-Sol is in that class, and maybe even a bit better. Have you A/B'd the Tung-Sol vs the EH in another head and preferred the EH?
 
Interesting info on the tube rolling, Vic. I've been very happy with the M6 and had been running the gain at noon most of the time and experimented with it just past noon for a while. This weekend I ran it at about 11 o'clock and I really dug the sound. Master had to come up a bit, but there was more headroom available, not that it was needed.:D Bottom tight and it took a little edge of the high end which this amp has in spades.
:

+1 I mentioned this way back in this thread some place. I've preferred the gain at around 11 and bumped up the master to suit.

Love the M6 but wish I could tame the 'pillow' like bottom. It's tight but a bit too much whoosh for my taste. Any tube swap suggestions that might help ??? If I could get the pillow to reduce a bit that would practically be the Holy Grail for me. My DB750 has the concussive tighter/less pillowy bottom presentation I love but the M6 has the rest of the Grail tone.
 
DB750...tighter?...really?...huh...never woulda bet on that.

Yes what I call tighter. The M6 is quicker in general but to me the DB 'kung fu' kicks harder and "tighter" or at least with less of what I described as a whoosh. The M6 seems a bit louder with more gain ability, but the DB just slams. When I go back and fourth my ear has to adjust because the M6's clarity is amazing and makes the DB sound a bit blanketed. But after the small adjust time the DB always make me smile.

I do have an NOS Tele in V1 in my 750.
 
figgered;)

you might try that same tube in the M6 then; tho I've found that generaly speaking, for tier mission, mesas seem to function pretty well with the mesa tubes.

i put jj's in my walkabouts, but that was to let them run cleaner, longer, before overdrive kicked in.

the only reliable way is to have 5-6 different tubes on hand, and roll them thru with the top off (power down and unplug between!) and see waht strikes your ear as best.
 
Big String,

Whoosh even with the bergies? My M6 is pretty tight with the HS210s, but those are a little low end shy naturally so they pair well. I liked the Groove Tube (Gold) 5751 I tried. A little better low end definition than stock, but wanted to here Vics tube test before deciding on one.
 
Love the M6 but wish I could tame the 'pillow' like bottom. It's tight but a bit too much whoosh for my taste. Any tube swap suggestions that might help ??? If I could get the pillow to reduce a bit that would practically be the Holy Grail for me. My DB750 has the concussive tighter/less pillowy bottom presentation I love but the M6 has the rest of the Grail tone.
Just pulling a little of the bass out doesn't do that for ya?

I could be wrong, but I really doubt a tube swap would have such a band-specific result.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.