the mute is "pull master voume to mute, push to un-mute"
makes it hard to leave it set at a consistent point.
makes it hard to leave it set at a consistent point.
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Mesa M6 Carbine Mega-Thread Pt Deux
- Thread starter Chef
- Start date
- Status
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,515
- 19,942
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- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
The point of a compressor is to, ultimately, 'even out' what the power amp actually produces. It's a very good way to get a fat, percussive slap tone, or help note sustain in a rock context.
So, you really need it to be somewhere in the chain before the pwr amp.
For example, in my old rack system we went bass>preamp>(insert compressor in preamp effects loop)preamp out to>Power amp. This way, I can control the pwr amp with it's attenuator, to alter stage volume and nothing else.
With the M6, the pwr amp attenuator controls the pwr amp but also the effects SEND, which controls the input level to the compressor, which in turn controls the pwr amp. This creates a really dumb and undesirable feedback loop.
There is absolutely no justification that I can think of to have the Master volume control anything other than master volume. I love how this head sounds, but I hate how it works.
So, you really need it to be somewhere in the chain before the pwr amp.
For example, in my old rack system we went bass>preamp>(insert compressor in preamp effects loop)preamp out to>Power amp. This way, I can control the pwr amp with it's attenuator, to alter stage volume and nothing else.
With the M6, the pwr amp attenuator controls the pwr amp but also the effects SEND, which controls the input level to the compressor, which in turn controls the pwr amp. This creates a really dumb and undesirable feedback loop.
There is absolutely no justification that I can think of to have the Master volume control anything other than master volume. I love how this head sounds, but I hate how it works.
yup. all you had to do was look at the posts on the previous page - i linked in a photo of the back showing the mute jack.
I thought everyone was complaining the mute didn't function right or something.
your previous post confirmed that
but yeah i'm going to call them when i get a chance at work, i'll post what the rep says later.
That sucks as I have a nice compressor that I was going to use just as you say. Its a Rane and I use it sparingly and not to completley sqaush the dynamics, but it sounds good. Let's not talk about the merits of a using a compressor (Ken, Vic
) but rather the fact that it should be useable is this configuration. I am bummed about this. The mute thing is not a deal for me as I plan to use the footswitch, but in some situations I would like to use the post DI with the compressor in the loop (at low compression) without having the master control the DI output. I am bummed about this too. Well, Ken is going to tell me to drop the compressor and it is not and issue.
) but rather the fact that it should be useable is this configuration. I am bummed about this. The mute thing is not a deal for me as I plan to use the footswitch, but in some situations I would like to use the post DI with the compressor in the loop (at low compression) without having the master control the DI output. I am bummed about this too. Well, Ken is going to tell me to drop the compressor and it is not and issue.
Looks like you 'compressor in the effects loop' guys need to unload your M6s quickly.....
I'm here.
I'm here.
dmusic148's post has great input in it as well, but in addition to that, there are valid cases for this. It depends on your goals for compression. If you WANT the preamp to see the strong peaks because you get a tonal behavior you like from that, BUT, you want the dynamic range seen by the power amp to be kept within bounds, this is a good reason for an efx loop compressor.
I agree with the complaint about the master affecting the send. That's a bad call. IMHO, the ONLY thing the master should affect is the volume coming out of the speaker cabinet... stage volume... and THAT'S ALL. PERIOD. Not the DI, ever, and not the effects loop. Nothing else. Just cab SPLs.
IMHO.
All this said, none of these issues affect me at all, so for the most part, I don't have a dog in this hunt, but it's fun to talk about anyway.
Well, for most people, this is not as big of an issue, I'm thinking. Just because it's in the rack doesn't mean it can't come before the amp in your signal chain. No reason you can't just go into the Rane first and then the M6.
FWIW, I've never put a compressor in the efx loop anyway. I've always used nice stomp boxes and had them before the amp. Worked fine for me.
...back when I used them, anyway...
From M6 Manual:
4) Adjust the processors Input/Output Level attenuator to achieve unity gain by toggling the LOOP switch in and out of BYPASS while making fine adjustments at the processor until you hear no level difference. Keep in mind you might have to adjust the M6 CARBINE OUTPUT control also if the processor indicating lights read unity gain (look good and are not clipping).
NOTE: The EFFECTS LOOP IS optimized for professional quality rack mount processors. Most pedal type effects work better in the front-end between your instrument and the INPUT. You will experience some tonal changes because of the additional cable and the fact that your instrument will no longer be going straight into the grid of the first tube. Its up to you to decide if the trade off is acceptable
So is this becuase it is series instead of parallel? Also according to the manual, would you have to balance between the effects loop output and master volume each time you want to adjust the master volume? And if you were running post DI this would affect the FOH volume. That's it I am trading mine. Well, I don't have it yet. I don't seem to recall having any problems with my Mesa BB750 with the compressor and DI. I will check the manual on it.
4) Adjust the processors Input/Output Level attenuator to achieve unity gain by toggling the LOOP switch in and out of BYPASS while making fine adjustments at the processor until you hear no level difference. Keep in mind you might have to adjust the M6 CARBINE OUTPUT control also if the processor indicating lights read unity gain (look good and are not clipping).
NOTE: The EFFECTS LOOP IS optimized for professional quality rack mount processors. Most pedal type effects work better in the front-end between your instrument and the INPUT. You will experience some tonal changes because of the additional cable and the fact that your instrument will no longer be going straight into the grid of the first tube. Its up to you to decide if the trade off is acceptable
So is this becuase it is series instead of parallel? Also according to the manual, would you have to balance between the effects loop output and master volume each time you want to adjust the master volume? And if you were running post DI this would affect the FOH volume. That's it I am trading mine. Well, I don't have it yet. I don't seem to recall having any problems with my Mesa BB750 with the compressor and DI. I will check the manual on it.
I understand the above, but it still makes very little sense to me (i.e., running a compressor in an effects loop). Put another way, I'd buy a cold and frosty beer to anyone who could tell the difference between a compressor before or after the preamp in a bass rig on a blind bassis with the gains set equally
Put yet another way, I also am not aware of any guitarists who use compressors that don't have them 'pre-pre'.
I'm with you also... if you can play, the need for a compressor is more psychological than reality.
i see how some might be bothered by this, but i don't care about the fx loop issues. i get the impression this minimalist head is designed to for players who plug&chug (like i). i also get the impression that mesa has reasons for doing the things they do, so i'd be interested to hear something from mesa on this point.
Extremely common to insert a compressor in the effects loop. See the last paragraph.
I'm not saying many don't, or that it's inherently bad, just that it doesn't really make much sense to me. Many use 'power conditioners' in their racks also, which also makes very little sense, given the design of moder SS amps! If it is that important to you, obviously, you need an effects loop that is configured more 'normally'.
Again, I can see a compressor being used to even out the peaks and valleys in the input signal, especially for those who don't have full control of their technique. I guess I can also see a compressor being useful for power amp limiting, if you are using an amp that doesn't have enough headroom for your peaks and valleys (although, of course, putting a compressor in front of the signal chain would also do this just as well, and most modern amps already have power amp limiting built in anyway).
No big deal. From one bassist who has a lot and lot of years under his hat to another, I would HIGHLY recommend you take that M6 on a few gigs while leaving that compressor at home. After the initial shock of having to control your dynamics a bit more with your hands, you might find that extra bit of dynamic range, and the extra bit of clarity you get from your bass not running through a bunch of additional circuitry a very positive and eye opening thing.
Yeah, umm, I have, thanks.
It has nothing to do with technique. Nada. Keep saying it is if you must, but it's irrelevant.
Call me crazy, but I'm more than a little miffed as I only discovered this 'design trait' once it was too late to return it. After gigging it solo. And then deciding to use a compressor.
If you don't like compressors, great. Some do, some don't. Those who do will want a loop that works correctly, which this one definitely does not.
It has nothing to do with technique. Nada. Keep saying it is if you must, but it's irrelevant.
Call me crazy, but I'm more than a little miffed as I only discovered this 'design trait' once it was too late to return it. After gigging it solo. And then deciding to use a compressor.
If you don't like compressors, great. Some do, some don't. Those who do will want a loop that works correctly, which this one definitely does not.
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