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Mesa M9 Carbine Power Reduced?

#161
I will pose one question:
How many that had their M9's in for repair or update were notified that their unit was now power derated for reliability? Any change from purchased specification should be disclosed. When informed and it doesn't bother you, great. If you didn't get notified that you no longer have everything you purchased, that is not acceptable. IMO
 
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#162
Valid point...
B-string said:
I will pose one question:
How many that had their M9's in for repair or update were notified that their unit was now power derated for reliability? Any change from purchased specification should be disclosed. When informed and it doesn't bother you, great. If you didn't get notified that you no longer have everything you purchased, that is not acceptable. IMO
Click to expand...
 
#163
KJung said:
It is a bit cheesy (i.e., that they didn't change the name and fess up, and the IMO marketing trick of lowering the M6 wattage so the M9 still seems 'more powerful'), but I think it is all about context...they have always been a bit of a 'tinkerer' company...still feels a bit like guys in a garage building something 'cool' but maybe not as' thought out' and tested as it could be. Their stuff has always been a bit 'Heathkit' (for those old enough to remember that.)...
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Hmmnn....

Not sure I would call Heath a 'tinkerer' company just because they built kits for that segment of the public that liked to construct good quality radios, receivers, amplifiers, oscilloscopes, etc. My father (UM grad who worked on Talos, Telstar, Minuteman, Polaris, Pershing, Bowshot, Harpoon, etc.) was a QC engineer for Heath. :confused:

FYI, Heath was one of the first US electronics firms to go iso 9000. The '80s 'dumping' by Asian manufacturers took its toll. :atoz:

Mesa, yeah. We BOTH like 'em...I guess. :cool:
 
#164
B-string said:
I will pose one question:
How many that had their M9's in for repair or update were notified that their unit was now power derated for reliability? Any change from purchased specification should be disclosed. When informed and it doesn't bother you, great. If you didn't get notified that you no longer have everything you purchased, that is not acceptable. IMO
Click to expand...


I'm curious whether or not actually swapping in the module with fewer Mosfets was ever actually a warranty practice and not just the design for future new M9s. Tien mentioned that a number of them had adjustments in the drive section- which would limit the ability to push the Mosfets to full power without actually downgrading the power section itself. Similar to the 2 ohm switch which keeps the same wattage at either 2 or 4 ohms.
 
#165
Jim Carr said:
Hmmnn....

Not sure I would call Heath a 'tinkerer' company just because they built kits for that segment of the public that liked to construct good quality radios, receivers, amplifiers, oscilloscopes, etc. My father (UM grad who worked on Talos, Telstar, Minuteman, Polaris, Pershing, Bowshot, Harpoon, etc.) was a QC engineer for Heath. :confused:

FYI, Heath was one of the first US electronics firms to go iso 9000. The '80s 'dumping' by Asian manufacturers took its toll. :atoz:

Mesa, yeah. We BOTH like 'em...I guess. :cool:
Click to expand...

Yeah, Heathkit is not a bad thing. Just more like some guys with soldering irons at workbenches was my point (versus running boards by the hundred on an assembly line). Put it out there, then figure out there is something that can be done better, get 'em back, solder some different stuff in there, send them back out (as you and many experienced with this stuff). Never cost me a cent other than a bit of shipping.

However, a bit of a pain IMO.
 
#166
B-string said:
I will pose one question:
How many that had their M9's in for repair or update were notified that their unit was now power derated for reliability? Any change from purchased specification should be disclosed. When informed and it doesn't bother you, great. If you didn't get notified that you no longer have everything you purchased, that is not acceptable. IMO
Click to expand...

I doubt they notified anyone. I accept it as 'business as usual.' Can we change it? Maybe, but voting with wallets is like the 'lone voice crying in the wilderness,' IMHO.

I am certain the three sets of transferable warranty mods, including 2 fans, new vented case, transformers, fusing, heatsinks, pre-amp updates, and lord knows what else done on units like my mighty ol' #0000034 were a burden for Mesa service.

That management insisted on a cheaper effective mod. to rein in the costs during a period of slack sales like we have seen since 2009 is no surprise. Should they have told owners who got the mod.? Yes. The suits now realize it was a mistake—as we are not quite the sheep they like to think we are, but then suits will be suits. They were all trained by a bunch of B-school profs. with the same mentality.
 
#167
B-string said:
I will pose one question:
How many that had their M9's in for repair or update were notified that their unit was now power derated for reliability? Any change from purchased specification should be disclosed. When informed and it doesn't bother you, great. If you didn't get notified that you no longer have everything you purchased, that is not acceptable. IMO
Click to expand...

My current one is a used M9. 1st owner sent it in for mods this past summer. I can confidently say he was not given any specifics regarding what was done. I contacted Mesa and was initially told (I am paraphrasing here) that everything was current. It was not until after reading this thread and pressing for specifics that I was told it had the diminished power spec. I'm pretty sure this info is not being volunteered, and I also suspect that previous units that were modded before the power downgrade became the standard are not being hunted down and given the complete lowdown. I strongly suspect the only end users who know what's up are those who have clicked on this thread. To be clear, I am not 100% happy with the way this was handled, but I am very happy with my 600 watt M9, and I do not believe that this situation is the same as the TC Electronics affair.
 
#168
lomo said:
My current one is a used M9. 1st owner sent it in for mods this past summer. I can confidently say he was not given any specifics regarding what was done. I contacted Mesa and was initially told (I am paraphrasing here) that everything was current. It was not until after reading this thread and pressing for specifics that I was told it had the diminished power spec. I'm pretty sure this info is not being volunteered, and I also suspect that previous units that were modded before the power downgrade became the standard are not being hunted down and given the complete lowdown. I strongly suspect the only end users who know what's up are those who have clicked on this thread. To be clear, I am not 100% happy with the way this was handled, but I am very happy with my 600 watt M9, and I do not believe that this situation is the same as the TC Electronics affair.
Click to expand...

I agree. The M9 did not set out to "deceive" nor did they don a Uli Behringer approach. It may have fallen victim to production variance between the engineering samples and production runs for the components. They started out producing exactly what they promised.
 
#175
Sooo.. Mesa comes out with their flagship product, the M9 Carbine. Its hyped up enough that I caught wind of it and kept an eye on it.

First generation of products fail due to overheating and shutdown. This leads me to believe Mesa QA is pretty shoddy if their flagship product is shipped essentially broken. Strike 1.

Mesa graciously offers fixes to people who bought the broken product. However the fix isn't just a "fix", it is a pretty hefty downgrade of the product's total potential and useability. They don't offer you any compensation for that lost output. Strike 2.

Oh, they also fix people's amps and don't disclose that they're downgrading the amp's output. BIG strike 3.

Then they go on to keep selling the amp in its new downgraded state, but don't change the name or openly advertise that its power has been downgraded. Instead, they INTENTIONALLY downgrade the lower model, just so the M9 can be "better" (this is my understanding from this thread.)

So now I can either buy an M9 at the original M9 price even though it has the guts of the old M6. Or I could buy the M6 at the original price, but its now downgraded from the original M6 just for the sake of marketing the M9.

Number of watts have nothing to do with it. If I bought a new 900 watt M9 and it broke and I sent it to Mesa and they sent me back essentially a 600 watt M6, I'd be wondering where the check is to cover the price difference between the M9 and the M6.

I have no stake in this game other than a lingering interest in the M9 which is gone now. I don't have an opposing opinion, just an objective opinion based on what I read in this thread. But if you read my opinion and feel offended or attacked... you might be a fanboy :D

Sure, Mesa set out wit the best intentions and no initial deception. But to say no deception has taken place in their handling of this issue is just being unrealistic.

EDIT: I also want to mention that if you're happy with your M9 and it serves your purposes then I'm happy for you. I chimed in because this was an amp I was seriously considering, and I realize NOW that if I had pulled the trigger THEN, I'd be EXTREMELY disappointed to be in your shoes. But then I have different sonic needs than others.
 
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#177
Toastfuzz said:
I have no stake in this game other than a lingering interest in the M9 which is gone now. I don't have an opposing opinion, just an objective opinion based on what I read in this thread. But if you read my opinion and feel offended or attacked... you might be a fanboy :D

Sure, Mesa set out wit the best intentions and no initial deception. But to say no deception has taken place in their handling of this issue is just being unrealistic.
Click to expand...

I don't find your opinion offensive, but for someone who doesn't own the amp, your arm chair opinion is more heated than guys who do own the amp. My point that you missed is if you want to be upset about this go for it, but don't blanket all the users of this amp who are ok with the wattage being lowered as their opinion is just blind following of the brand.

Again, being ok with the lowered wattage isn't the same as saying no deception has occurred.
 
#178
Toastfuzz said:
Sooo.. Mesa comes out with their flagship product, the M9 Carbine. Its hyped up enough that I caught wind of it and kept an eye on it.

...Strike 1.
...Strike 2.
...BIG strike 3.

...they go on to keep selling the amp in its new downgraded state, but don't change the name or openly advertise that its power has been downgraded. Instead, they INTENTIONALLY downgrade the lower model, just so the M9 can be "better" (this is my understanding from this thread.)

So now I can either buy an M9 at the original M9 price even though it has the guts of the old M6. Or I could buy the M6 at the original price, but its now downgraded from the original M6 just for the sake of marketing the M9.

...if you read my opinion and feel offended or attacked, you might be a fanboy :D

...Mesa set out with the best intentions and no initial deception. But to say no deception has taken place in their handling of this issue is just being unrealistic.

...I chimed in because this was an amp I was seriously considering, and I realize NOW that if I had pulled the trigger THEN, I'd be EXTREMELY disappointed to be in your shoes...
Click to expand...

Don't be too upset. All's well that ends well. As you probably know, I sent my unit back 3 times, but use it every day and am even more in love now that I have a fEARful. Fanboy? Heck, I don't care who makes it, why, or how much kerfuffle there is. I don't even care that much that it still has 10 MOSFETS. It just sounds friggin' great to me, and thus helps me make the music I want to make. For me, it is a musical thing. The music is what matters. At a certain point, I forget the TB gear drama, and just go play. :bassist:

The suits, their agonies, and the corporate product dramas don't matter much. However, I always carry a spare amp (GK MB800). ;) I am grateful that Mesa took care of me.
 
#179
Well.. there certainly are a fair share of ArmChair owners on TB... :D It happens a lot as you know.:) A couple of folks in this thread have already made statements without ever gigging the amp.
Sadly it muddies the water, dilutes the true owners hands on posted experiences and lowers the credibility of the TB forum on a whole.. IMO

Good post...

As Jim Carr says.. Its in the music.. and if it works for you .. .Thats ALL that really matters anyway



andrew said:
I don't find your opinion offensive, but for someone who doesn't own the amp, your arm chair opinion is more heated than guys who do own the amp. My point that you missed is if you want to be upset about this go for it, but don't blanket all the users of this amp who are ok with the wattage being lowered as their opinion is just blind following of the brand.

Again, being ok with the lowered wattage isn't the same as saying no deception has occurred.
Click to expand...
 
#180
Jim Carr said:
....It just sounds friggin' great to me, and thus helps me make the music I want to make. For me, it is a musical thing. The music is what matters. At a certain point, I forget the TB gear drama, and just go play. :bassist:
Click to expand...


Amen.

As I posted earlier in this thread, I owned an early 900 watt M9 a few years ago, and now the latest spec. Through my F215, the tone is to die for, and it has enough power to blast my pants off. I love the way it sounds, and I love the way it feels. I'm not a "fanboy", I'm simply very happy with my rig.
 

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