Mesa M9 Carbine Power Reduced?

[Jim Carr]

...If they chose more robust MOSFETs for the task then it's of course a different matter. Mainly I'm interested to know whether this was really a reliability mod or a penny pinching mod. It's not like Mesa's been extremely honest with us so far so at this point I'm willing to expect just about anything from them.

I am not the original owner of M9 #0000034. I got it cheap on TB. The seller deleted all evidence of the sale and did not want feedback. I used the unit for a few weeks, and then put it in a two-spaced Gator rack. It started shutting down.

It went to Mesa, and came back with two fans. It went back again and came back with a much bigger heat sink, different power transformer, and changes in the fusing system. Damage suffered during shipping to Petaluma was fixed for free. It went back a 3rd time because of a noise that they could not duplicate—some updates were performed.

All work was done under the transferable warranty, and all for no charge. I will likely now always be a Mesa customer, and am looking forward to the M9's successor.

 

[5StringPocket]

Gotta give props for customer service like that. They lost money on that amp but they have a reputation and market position to protect.

 

[metron]

I'm a Mesa fan but I have to say this whole situation seems odd to me, from TB's largely whatever response to the details of what happened that don't quite line up. Odd. Am I the only one here?

 

[B-string]

I'm a Mesa fan but I have to say this whole situation seems odd to me, from TB's largely whatever response to the details of what happened that don't quite line up. Odd. Am I the only one here?

Nope, you are not the only one.

 

[KJung]

Nope, you are not the only one.

It is a bit cheesy (i.e., that they didn't change the name and fess up, and the IMO marketing trick of lowering the M6 wattage so the M9 still seems 'more powerful'), but I think it is all about context. They have been around for so long, and the original owner/designer is still in charge. With my decades of experience/ownership with Mesa (and I have to confess, I finally gave up on them a while ago), they have always been a bit of a 'tinkerer' company... still feels a bit like guys in a garage building something 'cool' but maybe not as' thought out' and tested as it could be. Their stuff has always been a bit 'Heathkit' (for those old enough to remember that.). It think every piece of Mesa gear I've ever owned went through multiple 'upgrades and recalls and fixes' etc. But, never cost me a penny, and they seem like honest cats. Great service, nice people, creative, funky company.

The stuff is unique, and for the most part, their specs are so conservative as to be silly.I think most Mesa fans are good to go with this, and the fact that a Mesa employee is posting up here often goes a long way towards putting this behind them.

For those who have massive volume as a tone goal (thank god, that is not me!), a 600 watt M9 is equal to a 1000 watt of most (any?) other brand IMO.

Edit: Of course, if they had pissed off JimmyM like TC Electronics did, this would have been the equivalent of someone shooting the Pope for then next 5 years!

 

[andrew]

I'm with KJung. Normally this sort of thing might bother me, but with the volume the M9 puts outs, I don't think it going from 900 to 600 watts is a bad thing. There's a large chunk of the volume knob's range I'll never use on my 900 watt M9. I'd prefer an amp with stronger reliability that I have to turn to 3 instead of 1.

Is the bother that the amp is less powerful or how they went abut making the change?

 

[B-string]

The "bait and switch" way they made the change. This kind of thing can cause SERIOUS problems in 'other' industries. In the M.I. industry I guess it's more "acceptable". Really didn't figure out a way to not word it so strongly. Apologies, not meant as a troll if anyone gets their hackles up.

 

[KJung]

The "bait and switch" way they made the change. This kind of thing can cause SERIOUS problems in 'other' industries. In the M.I. industry I guess it's more "acceptable". Really didn't figure out a way to not word it so strongly. Apologies, not meant as a troll if anyone gets their hackles up.

No, I get what you are saying. I hate the way GK uses their customers at 'beta testers' also, but they aren't bad people either and the stuff eventually settles down for sure. Tough business, and often 'mistakes are made' and/or 'corners are cut'.

Not many companies that don't have a few 'skeletons in the closet'. As long as they make good (and GK and Mesa definitely do/did), I don't really have a problem.

The good news is, if an individual is bothered by it, they can vote with their wallet.

Zero issue IMO. From what I have experienced with Mesa, if a customer was 'caught in the transition (i.e., bough one thinking it was 900 watts before they updated the specs on the website) and is upset by it, I would be almost sure they would take the unit back. I would guess that is a very few number of people impacted, and once they crank the thing up, I would doubt anyone would have an issue (other than maybe someone cranking 4 410's at 2 ohms or something).

 

[B-string]

No, I get what you are saying. I hate the way GK uses their customers at 'beta testers' also, but they aren't bad people either and the stuff eventually settles down for sure. Tough business, and often 'mistakes are made' and/or 'corners are cut'.

Not many companies that don't have a few 'skeletons in the closet'. As long as they make good (and GK and Mesa definitely do/did), I don't really have a problem.

The good news is, if an individual is bothered by it, they can vote with their wallet.

Zero issue IMO. From what I have experienced with Mesa, if a customer was 'caught in the transition (i.e., bough one thinking it was 900 watts before they updated the specs on the website) and is upset by it, I would be almost sure they would take the unit back. I would guess that is a very few number of people impacted, and once they crank the thing up, I would doubt anyone would have an issue (other than maybe someone cranking 4 410's at 2 ohms or something).

I like the people at Mesa so I am not going to site specifics. I am disappointed at the handling of this issue though.

 

[svtb15]

Sort of sounds like you have unresolved issues with Mesa by the way you are comparing them to Heathkit.. Just sayin..
How many M9s have toy gigged with on a regular basis?

It is a bit cheesy (i.e., that they didn't change the name and fess up, and the IMO marketing trick of lowering the M6 wattage so the M9 still seems 'more powerful'), but I think it is all about context. They have been around for so long, and the original owner/designer is still in charge. With my decades of experience/ownership with Mesa (and I have to confess, I finally gave up on them a while ago), they have always been a bit of a 'tinkerer' company... still feels a bit like guys in a garage building something 'cool' but maybe not as' thought out' and tested as it could be. Their stuff has always been a bit 'Heathkit' (for those old enough to remember that.). It think every piece of Mesa gear I've ever owned went through multiple 'upgrades and recalls and fixes' etc. But, never cost me a penny, and they seem like honest cats. Great service, nice people, creative, funky company.

The stuff is unique, and for the most part, their specs are so conservative as to be silly.I think most Mesa fans are good to go with this, and the fact that a Mesa employee is posting up here often goes a long way towards putting this behind them.

For those who have massive volume as a tone goal (thank god, that is not me!), a 600 watt M9 is equal to a 1000 watt of most (any?) other brand IMO.

Edit: Of course, if they had pissed off JimmyM like TC Electronics did, this would have been the equivalent of someone shooting the Pope for then next 5 years!

 

[svtb15]

I like them too...Meet them at NAMM and they have always been very inviting... I have ZERO issues with my M9 my old Fathom, Mpulse 600 or a new Walkabout that i got..
At least they came and explained it.. Some other companies just ran for cover when similar issues came up.. Mesa came out with it..
They do have quite good CS.. Like Genz Benz, who has/had the BEST CS of any amp company that i have worked with in 40 years of gigging.. Started playing arena gigs in 1976! Im old... but Nice and Easy keeps the grey away.. except fir the chinny chin..

I like the people at Mesa so I am not going to site specifics. I am disappointed at the handling of this issue though.

 

[B-string]

I like them too...Meet them at NAMM and they have always been very inviting... I have ZERO issues with my M9 my old Fathom, Mpulse 600 or a new Walkabout that i got..
At least they came and explained it.. Some other companies just ran for cover when similar issues came up.. Mesa came out with it..
They do have quite good CS.. Like Genz Benz, who has/had the BEST CS of any amp company that i have worked with in 40 years of gigging.. Started playing arena gigs in 1976! Im old... but Nice and Easy keeps the grey away.. except fir the chinny chin..

Yes, thinking of losing the chin fur. Have a good haircutter with "magic" scissors for the roof .

 

[juggernaut1]

It's hard to hold back on this issue........I have a Titan that went back to Mesa 3 times, and is still shutting down. Ive had enough. I'm voting with my wallet. No more Mesa for me.

 

[KJung]

It's hard to hold back on this issue........I have a Titan that went back to Mesa 3 times, and is still shutting down. Ive had enough. No more Mesa for me.

It is a bit of an adventure for sure, seems like the M9 is solid now. Took a while.

 

[svtb15]

Yeah.. I kinda got used to it.. I almost cut it off today... .... Bobby Vega told me he wears his hat as a TM.. he said Kirk do something.. So i said OK.. Ill grow my chinny chin.. But its all Grey.. HA...
thats the ticket!!!.. HAHAHAH,, I have to go touch up the sideburns this week.. I have a great hair girl... Only my hairdresser knows for sure!

Yes, thinking of losing the chin fur. Have a good haircutter with "magic" scissors for the roof .

 

[svtb15]

Titan was a great sounding amp..
I have heard stories that they heat up too. as you said . But i have heard other stories that they were fine.. But what really matters is your rig on your gig... just as you said..
I often wondered , what if they vented the amp fully from rear and out through the front with a tunnel ... instead of venting to the side like the M9.. Venting to the side allows hot air to do a re-uptake in the rack case back into the intake fan..
Not sure if the Titan has the heatsink sideways as in the M6. M9, Mpulse series? Or more like the BB750 which flows front to rear...

It's hard to hold back on this issue........I have a Titan that went back to Mesa 3 times, and is still shutting down. Ive had enough. No more Mesa for me.

 

[Jeff Scott]

...I often wondered , what if they vented the amp fully from rear and out through the front with a tunnel ... instead of venting to the side like the M9.. Venting to the side allows hot air to do a re-uptake in the rack case back into the intake fan.

I always wondered why these amp builders do that, put the hot air back inside the rack? When I go amp shopping this is something that is a major decision maker to me.

 

[Crabby]

I would be happy to own a 600 watt M9 that didn't overheat rather then a 900 watt version that wasn't fully reliable.

 

[svtb15]

There is a Boutique amp builder on this site.. He has had his weirdness with some outrageous claims from time to time... But he told me that "you DONT HAVE TO VENT the enclosure at all".. Just as long as " the air in the enclosure is stirred up" is what he says .. Then you will fine..
I dont know.. Im not an amp builder... So he may be 100% correct....

His amp is mostly cooled by Conduction or diffusion where the heatsink is part of the outer chassis instead of forced air ... Even though it does have a rear mounted fan..

Wish i knew the answer...

I always wondered why these amp builders do that, put the hot air back inside the rack? When I go amp shopping this is something that is a major decision maker to me.

 

[svtb15]

the newer m9 is very reliable... I ran my hard last summer on quite a few outdoor runs .... All gigs where into 2 ohms (2 Uber 115s and one 810 cab) and fairly LOUD . No way i need that much... But it was fun to do because i could HA. Stage temps at around 100 degrees as we went on.. I think they have the heat issue under control... I also have mine in a 4 space rack.

I would be happy to own a 600 watt M9 that didn't overheat rather then a 900 watt version that wasn't fully reliable.