Mesa M9 Carbine Power Reduced?

[s_wood]

My take on all of this: everybody screws up. To me, the mistake matters less than how the person (or company) who makes it reacts to it.

Seems to me like Mesa made a mistake by releasing a less-than-gigproof design into the wild. Hey, it happens. What's impressive, at least to me, is that they dealt with the problem in a forthright manner. They redesigned and publicly re-spec'd the amp and are fixing them for free even before a failure occurs. What else could they possibly do?

One other thing: I don't know about the specs but my m9 is louder than hell. It's at least as loud as my GenzBenz Streamliner 900, which is also rated at 900 watts.

 

[JimmyM]

Edit: Of course, if they had pissed off JimmyM like TC Electronics did, this would have been the equivalent of someone shooting the Pope for then next 5 years!

Right, because I can't tell the difference between a company that was having problems with a certain amp and fixing it and updating their promo stuff, and a company that based their entire product line on made up specs. I'm real stupid, apparently.

 

[BurningSkies]

Right, because I can't tell the difference between a company that was having problems with a certain amp and fixing it and updating their promo stuff, and a company that based their entire product line on made up specs. I'm real stupid, apparently.

That would be like making a 280w amp then putting 400 in the name and telling people it was a 400w amp.

 

[Jeff Scott]

There is a Boutique amp builder on this site.. He has had his weirdness with some outrageous claims from time to time... But he told me that "you DONT HAVE TO VENT the enclosure at all".. Just as long as " the air in the enclosure is stirred up" is what he says .. Then you will fine..
I dont know.. Im not an amp builder... So he may be 100% correct....

His amp is mostly cooled by Conduction or diffusion where the heatsink is part of the outer chassis instead of forced air ... Even though it does have a rear mounted fan..

Wish i knew the answer...

It may be different with convection cooled amps vs. forced air cooling, possibly. Walter Woods amps are all convection cooled and are quite reliable, and mine runs amazing cool even in the 4 space rack it lives in when used at outdoor gigs in the sun with no cover on the stage.

 

[svtb15]

i believe the Walter Wood is a Class D amp.. Not sure... Class D does run pretty cool... I never owned one. so i may be wrong

It may be different with convection cooled amps vs. forced air cooling, possibly. Walter Woods amps are all convection cooled and are quite reliable, and mine runs amazing cool even in the 4 space rack it lives in when used at outdoor gigs in the sun with no cover on the stage.

 

[svtb15]

Someone did that already.. A boutique amp builder on here did that...He had a 600 watt amp but said because it sounds like everyone elses 750 watt amp that he will name it a 750b....

That would be like making a 280w amp then putting 400 in the name and telling people it was a 400w amp.

 

[BurningSkies]

Someone did that already.. A boutique amp builder on here did that...He had a 600 watt amp but said because it sound like everyone elses 750 amp that he i will name it a 750b....

Seems like a popular thing to do with 'boutique amp' makers.

 

[svtb15]

Seems like a popular thing to do with 'boutique amp' makers.

 

[KJung]

Someone did that already.. A boutique amp builder on here did that...He had a 600 watt amp but said because it sounds like everyone elses 750 watt amp that he will name it a 750b....

Not many brands that don't have skeletons in their closet.

The other thing I hate is amp manufacturers who name the amp for their 2ohm output, which many would never use (Mesa does this with the BB750.... lots of 'surprised' customers over the years on that one when they plug nto a 4ohm cab!). Genz's power ratings (as you know) also always seemed 'hopeful' to me, etc.

Tough business out there. Again, while initially poorly handled, the M9 situation is OK in my book, since the specs are accurate at this point. They do need to change the name though (M6+ or something). If they did that, they could raise the wattage of the M6 again, snce there didn't seem to be a reliability issue with that one in the first place

Lots of shenanigans going on with amplification for sure, but very easy to 'vote with your wallet' IMO.

 

[lomo]

I agree with Jimmy. Comparing the M9 situation to the TC approach is like comparing apples to hammers. TC set out from scratch and constructed a considerably misleading discordance between their product claims and reality. Foul IMHO.

 

[Toastfuzz]

I agree with Jimmy. Comparing the M9 situation to the TC approach is like comparing apples to hammers. TC set out from scratch and constructed a considerably misleading discordance between their product claims and reality. Foul IMHO.

Apples to apples. People in this thread said they bought the M9 because it was advertised as a 900 watt amp, then later on the specs magically change to 600 when they get called out on it. KJung summed it up perfectly:

I would guess that is a very few number of people impacted, and once they crank the thing up, I would doubt anyone would have an issue (other than maybe someone cranking 4 410's at 2 ohms or something).

If I bought this amp because I wanted to run 4 410's at 2 ohms, and then found the power lacking, no amount of Mesa fanboys saying "its plenty powerful enough for me" would change the fact that its dishonest advertising.

I only considered this amp to run at 2 ohms into alot of speakers to produce gutwrenching volumes. Thank Science for the internet and TB that I found this thread and can add the M9 and Mesa to the list of crap I'll never bother with. Plenty of other honest quality amp makers out there.

 

[lomo]

So having to make changes because of reliability, then having a period of transition during which PR was wrong, but making it all right for customers at no charge and eventually coming clean is EXACTLY the same as designing an amp and intentionally constructing a PR campaign that states essentially double the power output of what is actually produced, then shrugging it all off as being OK???? I think we live on different planets. Sorry you're bummed with your M9 :-(

 

[Chef]

The number of amps that "bench test" to their marketed power output is kinda nothing like 100%.
In most cases, you're better off thinking of claimed power "as a ballpark figure," and seeing if any particular amp meets your needs based on that.

A shame, to be sure, but, there you go.
That sort of marketing is everywhere you look:
"1000 watt cabs," "500 horsepower cars," etc.

 

[svtb15]

Well as you must know RE: the MESA BB750,, All one would simply need to do is read the Website.. It CLEARLY states that it is 750 watts at 2 Ω.. Not 4Ω or 1Ω but @2 Ω.. No trickery going on there..

Just because you are used to everything at 4 Ω ratings... after all your decades of experience....That doesn't mean that you should not read the specs and comprehend them before you buy something. I assume that you would know that.

I guess that i am puzzled at why you are bringing up another name brand like Genz.. They clearly produce what they are rated .
Maybe no to your "liking" .
After all you did like your streamliner enough to use it as your avatar for a long time. So why now all the negativity?

Not many brands that don't have skeletons in their closet.

The other thing I hate is amp manufacturers who name the amp for their 2ohm output, which many would never use (Mesa does this with the BB750.... lots of 'surprised' customers over the years on that one when they plug nto a 4ohm cab!). Genz's power ratings (as you know) also always seemed 'hopeful' to me, etc.

 

[svtb15]

+1
Problem is TC started out designing an amp with less power..... and marketed it as a higher power... Just like the thunderfunk 750 that was suddenly 900 watts at 2 Ω.. it wasnt, that's why they revised their site. it was 600 or so at 4Ω and pushing it the limit of 800 at 2Ω so they said... i was helping with RnD on that thunderfunk amp.. i know! I told him to not call it what he was calling it... . But that is history...

Mesa originally designed and made a 900 watt amp... but after issues they made updates to comply and fix issues.. All on THEIR DIME... then after they got the fix and made updates on their dime... their changed their website to reflect the final products output
.
The MESA m9 is Nothing like the TC debacle

I agree with Jimmy. Comparing the M9 situation to the TC approach is like comparing apples to hammers. TC set out from scratch and constructed a considerably misleading discordance between their product claims and reality. Foul IMHO.

 

[Chef]

I think Ken's point (and I'm inclined to agree with him) is that "4 ohms is pretty much the industry standard" for "power claims."
And, therefore, to call it a 750 watt amp is "somewhat suspect."

I don't know that he meant Mesa are "intentionally misleading," and, I don't think they mean to be. I do know some of the folks there, and they don't impress me as that sort of people.

 

[metron]

Someone did that already.. A boutique amp builder on here did that...He had a 600 watt amp but said because it sounds like everyone elses 750 watt amp that he will name it a 750b....

He's talking about the 400+

 

[andrew]

There are people in this thread who have opposing opinions to me, so I need to insult them and call the whole brand crap to deal with this

I like/own big wattage amplifiers. I'm a fan of Mesa but far from a fanboy. In the case of the M9, regardless of how they got there,
I like the idea of a more reliable M9 at less wattage because I know the M9 has more power than most users need as it is to the point that it feels like a waste to me anyway.

If you're bothered by what you see as a shady handling of how the product was changed I respect that. But don't assume that because some of us like the idea of the power reduction that that means we're making excuses for Mesa or how they handled it. The two things don't have to be connected.

 

[BurningSkies]

He's talking about the 400+

Who, me?

 

[sunbeast]

Did Mesa mention just how long ago they actually "down-graded" the wattage of the M9? In real time? As a potential customer for one for years I had stayed away specifically because of the handful of TB'ers that had reliability problems with them. Honestly I'd be far more likely to purchase one now that they made a more drastic change to the topology to make it more reliable. It sucks that they failed to immediately edit the literature for the amp, but I honestly believe that the change was done with the best intentions for existing and future owners of the M9. It isn't the same as designing an amp that puts out 600 watts then finding a tricky way to describe it as a 900 watt amp (like the 400+...)- they designed a 900 watt amp that tended to fail under real world conditions as a 900 watt amp, so they "redesigned" it as a 600 watt amp to curb these failures (or just swapped the power module with a more tried and true existing module).

There is a lot of assumption here that they intentionally hid this change, but given the many updates of the M9 over time to try to resolve the heat issues I don't necessarily think that is fair to assume. I do agree that it sucks for anyone who bought new in whatever window in between the update of the amp design on new models and the update in sales literature. I would imagine that any of these people would have grounds for some sort of resolution through the dealer they purchased from if they were truly that bothered by it.

I had one of the early M6s that had shutdown problems, and their quick and painless handling of the warranty/upgrade of that amp really won my support. While I was pissed at first that my brand new amp was already having issues, at least Mesa made good on it as quick as humanly possible (sent me a new updated M6 direct to my house before even receiving mine back on their dime). I was impressed enough that I am now one of the Bass Prodigy early adopters and fully confident that they will take care of me if problems do arise. If their amps didn't sound so dang good I'd probably have more grounds to look elsewhere, but having so far only had one problem between 5 separate Mesa amps I feel comfortable enough with my odds.