Would a SMPS that was identical except for magnetics and additional capacitor storage across all tube products be feasible? I imagine each configuration would have to be certified - perhaps a single platform programmable supply with configurable outputs could share the certification costs. -60v @ 2mA, 12.6V @ 10A, 300-500V @ 500mA. The magnetics while overkill for the smaller amps, would still be much smaller and cheaper than putting a Hammond PT379WX in a 22 caliber (or whatever the current smallest amp Mesa makes is)
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Mesa Strategy and Prodigy discontinued. Also PH cabs.
- Thread starter mikeswals
- Start date
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,045
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- 220,994
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Any changes would require recertification. Multi-model certification is possible but more costly, and in the case of all products, the end product must carry the certification though the SMPS can carry a recognition mark for safety.
Just going to jump in here to say that both the Strategy and Prodigy are really hot rodded amps and it's becoming more and more difficult to get consistent quality production KT-88 tubes that can handle the high voltages and currents that are necessary under the wide variety of real world conditions that these amps see in the wild (and getting more and more difficult every day it seems) . They are an expensive tube (especially a set of 8), and when reliability suffers the costs of replacements can get pretty high awfully quickly. Since our warranty is both long and liberal (as many of you are aware of, and some of you have taken advantage of), it has just become impractical to continue with such a costly, almost custom build type amp. There are some still available throughout the dealer network, as well as showing up on the TB classifieds. The warranty is transferable, so if you want one just keep your eyes open.
As far as the Powerhouse cabinets, the days of players seeking out 100+ pound cabinets is coming to a close. Absolutely nothing wrong with the speaker, just that tastes have changed away from this to cabinets like the Subway and similar lighter weight more compact cabinets. There are plenty of new and used PH cabinets out there so there's certainly no shortage plus we continue to stock all the repair parts and warranty service should it be necessary.
Don't worry though, I am always working on new designs and listening closely to what Talkbass players are looking for, as you all seem to be ahead of the curve more than anywhere else. Now's your chance to speak up!
Uh can I buy some tubes for my Carbine M9 for future security?
And also, the D800 or the D800+ is on my list, I need a backup amp. I might just come back up to Petaluma and bug you guys again, since I really loved my first tour of the shop 2 years ago
The M9 doesn't use any power tubes. Only one preamp 12AX7 tube. So the M9 is not concerned by these KT-88 reliability issues.Uh can I buy some tubes for my Carbine M9 for future security?
And also, the D800 or the D800+ is on my list, I need a backup amp. I might just come back up to Petaluma and bug you guys again, since I really loved my first tour of the shop 2 years ago
About the D800 amps, they don't even use any tubes. So no concern at all.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,045
- 5
- 220,994
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Uh can I buy some tubes for my Carbine M9 for future security?
And also, the D800 or the D800+ is on my list, I need a backup amp. I might just come back up to Petaluma and bug you guys again, since I really loved my first tour of the shop 2 years ago
No power tubes are used, but with the original sales paperwork I believe you can buy your first replacement set of preamp tubes for your Carbine at 1/2-price.
Call the customer service guys to verify this.
Is the Subway's voicing knob the same tonal profile as the voicing knob on the M6/M9 Carbine?
I have an Eden Glowplug with a 12AX preamp tube in it, but it takes 15V (so you have to use its own plug) and it isn't true bypass. Frankly I don't mind removing it from my pedal board, the M9 Carbine gives me some great tube pre-amp warmth. As a middle-aged bass player, that tube pre is hard to let go of when considering D-Class -- however, lugging a 410 or 610 is definitely something I will never do again. Both of my cabs are Barefaced, 26 and 21 lbs, lighter than my amp. Guess we can't have it all
Which models? Do they replace both the 410 and the 610 you owned in terms of tone, sound, projection?
My favorite 410 is the PH410. I gigged one for a while when I started playing again but it wasnt easy to live with, bulky and 96lbs for a 410. Fantastic tone but it had to go.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,045
- 5
- 220,994
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Not the same, but covers a good part of the territory. It doesn't get into the very bright area like the Carbine does.
Re: replacement 10" drivers.
My 2001ish 600w PH210 cabs speakers are just about done. The adhesive for the cones had been repaired twice in one cab. Has anyone gone with a darker sounding replacment 10"? They have tons of low end, but the upper mids are just beaming bright and brittle. As a stand alone its no problem eq'ing out said mids, but when going thru the house PA one of my regular soundman tells me I suck out all my juicy mids when I eq out those mids unlike when I use my PH212 cabs.
Its the same bright brittle beam I had with my PH810, so I dont want to go back to this speaker.
Faitals?
Eminence legends?
My 2001ish 600w PH210 cabs speakers are just about done. The adhesive for the cones had been repaired twice in one cab. Has anyone gone with a darker sounding replacment 10"? They have tons of low end, but the upper mids are just beaming bright and brittle. As a stand alone its no problem eq'ing out said mids, but when going thru the house PA one of my regular soundman tells me I suck out all my juicy mids when I eq out those mids unlike when I use my PH212 cabs.
Its the same bright brittle beam I had with my PH810, so I dont want to go back to this speaker.
Faitals?
Eminence legends?
You should never give the soundguy a DI feed that's eq'd for a "voiced" cab. Either give him a pre-eq feed or mic the cab.
Since my cabs need new drivers, can we stick with the question at hand?
My casino gig circut soundguys wont deal with micd cabs, and I wont deal with pre eq/amp feeds...especially when said soundguys love the Mesa character Ive been feeding them all these years. This is after all for the love of Mesa! not an argument I want to continue.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,045
- 5
- 220,994
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Actually, I think this is an important part of what you are dealing with. You have a heavily voiced cabinet, you eq the mid voicing out of it and then send this signal to the sound guy... if you have been sending a post eq feed to the sound guy with this eq to counteract the cabinet voicing, and they "love the Mesa character you have been feeding them all this time", then what is different when your regular sound man says that you have sucked all the mids out of the DI (which is why under these conditions a pre-eq send is preferable).
I am trying to help you get to the root of the problem.
The original drivers (or possibly updated versions) are still available, but if you don't want to go down this path, you are going to have to sort it out yourself since only you understand your specific dilemma.
I didnt have to drastically change my eq settings on any of my Mesa heads until I bought those two well-used 2001 era PH210 cabs ealier this year.
The cabs are nice, and I knew very well the original eminence speakers would eventually need replacing.
If I use my other Mesa cabs that are non 10" speakers, I dont have to cut any upper mids out of my amps eq settings, in fact I'm usually boosted.
IOW, I have to scoop the amp just for these PH210 cabs, and thats what my soundguy doesn't like.
I do know the manufacturer cant/will not recommend a different speaker. Which is why I'm asking if any player has experienced going to a different 10" driver.
As for the OE speaker: Mesa did change something as they are now rated at less power. Now if the tone is different too, I can definitely go for it.
But yeah I realize Im on my own.
Last edited:
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,045
- 5
- 220,994
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Check in with the customer service guys, they have the best information on the evolution of each model. They will have the best recommendations.
By heavily eq'ing these cabinets, you are also heavily eq'ing the post send in a way that does not work well for the PA. This is where I recommend using the pre DI as (by far) the least of the evils.
Have you considered getting more of the cabinets you are having better luck with?
By heavily eq'ing these cabinets, you are also heavily eq'ing the post send in a way that does not work well for the PA. This is where I recommend using the pre DI as (by far) the least of the evils.
Have you considered getting more of the cabinets you are having better luck with?
I already have. i have two PH212 which are my favs.
But I want a compact rig (utilizing one or two 210's).
@Caca de Kick, I'm not going to tell you what to do with your cabs -- I get that you don't dig the voicing and would like to change it if you could and that, if it's feasible, when the drivers are in need of replacement anyway would seem a good time to do it.
I don't know enough to suggest an alternate driver, but I do know that you'll at minimum want to account for the box volume and tuning of the cab when checking out replacements and that, even if a driver works well with those, it might or might not work as well with the stock HF driver and crossover (I don't know enough to tell you how big an issue that might be in this case).
Checking with Mesa seems a good first step. Meanwhile, until you get the cab situation resolved, one way or another, to your liking, maybe you could give the pre-EQ thing a shot? I'm not of the school that thinks a post-EQ send is always bad, by the way -- I use both pre-EQ and post-EQ fairly regularly -- just depends on the situation and what you're going for. In this case, since you and the sound guy aren't happy with the post-EQ results (when using the 210 -- I understand that it's working with the 212), I figure it can't hurt to try. I'd give him a pre-EQ send and ask him to come up to the stage and listen to your sound with you from there and see if he can match it -- or at least translate your onstage vibe as faithfully as he can to the house in a way that works for the overall mix.
You guys are both experienced enough to trust your ears. If you don't like it better, you can always go back to the way you were doing it. If you do like it and find that you're able to achieve on-stage and FOH sounds you like with the stock driver, then maybe a factory replacement becomes a more attractive option.
Good luck!
I don't know enough to suggest an alternate driver, but I do know that you'll at minimum want to account for the box volume and tuning of the cab when checking out replacements and that, even if a driver works well with those, it might or might not work as well with the stock HF driver and crossover (I don't know enough to tell you how big an issue that might be in this case).
Checking with Mesa seems a good first step. Meanwhile, until you get the cab situation resolved, one way or another, to your liking, maybe you could give the pre-EQ thing a shot? I'm not of the school that thinks a post-EQ send is always bad, by the way -- I use both pre-EQ and post-EQ fairly regularly -- just depends on the situation and what you're going for. In this case, since you and the sound guy aren't happy with the post-EQ results (when using the 210 -- I understand that it's working with the 212), I figure it can't hurt to try. I'd give him a pre-EQ send and ask him to come up to the stage and listen to your sound with you from there and see if he can match it -- or at least translate your onstage vibe as faithfully as he can to the house in a way that works for the overall mix.
You guys are both experienced enough to trust your ears. If you don't like it better, you can always go back to the way you were doing it. If you do like it and find that you're able to achieve on-stage and FOH sounds you like with the stock driver, then maybe a factory replacement becomes a more attractive option.
Good luck!
