Mesa Strategy and Prodigy discontinued. Also PH cabs.

[DigitalMan]

Here's my insanely poor business idea for the next Mesa bass amp.

Cross-license the Fractal technology (or similar). Build a digital preamp that emulates all the classic Mesa Bass amps, from the D-180 on forward. It would require a minimalist set of resources compared to the current Fractal hardware, previous gen processor would do fine, etc. Most of the work aside from packaging has already been done.

Then build it into a chassis that had genuine Mesa look-and-feel dials for inputs, plus a rotary switch to select which amp to emulate. The key would be a hybrid analog/digital control setup where you could operate the amp fully with knob twiddling alone, but also get deep into programming from a computer. The dials would be Mesa look and feel, but many would change function depending on what amp emulation was currently selected. These variable function dials would need a digital label of some sort.

Also, keep the modules that simulate different Mesa cabinets for DI or recording use.

Incorporate it into a rack form factor with a class D power section, and offer a customizable rack case in a classic bass head styled form-factor.

Let the emulation handle the simulation of power tubes.

While there are so many things wrong with this suggestion from a business standpoint, the upside would be a Mesa amp that has every Mesa bass amp ever built included in one, easy to operate unit. It could be a premium product that is heavy on R&D and licensing, but not so much on COGS.

The differentiation (over just buying a Fractal) would be the Mesa look and feel, as well as the endorsement of the emulations along with expected fine tuning of them to make them "just right".

Part of the appeal of this idea to me is preserving the legacy of the amazing catalog of Mesa bass amps made over the past 40-ish years.

Oh, and for an extra upcharge give the option to add a limited number of non-Mesa emulations from the Fractal catalog.

 

[Leo was right]

Repair parts for the M-Pulse amps are available to any authorized service center.

We can not help that a technician or do it yourself repair attempt was unable to do a proper diagnosis or understands how to correctly repair the amp.

It should be ok now, the preamp section is functionning well, all components in the output section test ok, I only need time to put everything together mechanicaly. Thanks.

 

[Leo was right]

My knowledge in amps is pretty poor. But I have a feeling replacing the stock power section with some custom class D power section is a tough project. But keep us informed.

For sure it is a technical task, but if you find an amp with a busted output section but with a functionning preamp, a ICEPOWER AX250 module have the a switching power supply integrated in the module, so it mean you have a connection for the 120 volts, a connection for audio input, a connection for speaker, that's it, pretty easy. you can give a second life to a old door stopper. It only need to have enough space into the head.

 

[Leo was right]

Ouch

Lol it's not my money. I love the ignorance game. It ain't the tubes. Even back in the 90s it was the " tubes fault" then again that was the " good old days" when SED was in full production. The supposed only factory making " good tubes"

My Chinese loaded kt88 Marshall and kt66 Marshall doing fine.

Let's all start rumours that " tube are bad" and nobody needs big cabs lol. So we can sell are overpriced class D's and scare the market from buying real tubes.

The D800+ is not an expensive amp and several small cabs together push the same air than a fridge size cab, sorry my roadies are retired.

 

[BogeyBass]

Never had roadies and still moving 2 fridges. Unlike popular believe they still punish a 2x12 and not really that heavy.

It's all relative to what people are doing but yes majority of the market doesn't benefit from a sealed cabinet.

Quad 6L6 100watts
Quad 6550 200 watts

It's not difficult to design amps that work with all these horrible tubes.

Absolutely agree Leo was right

 

[CryingBass]

Here's my insanely poor business idea for the next Mesa bass amp.

Cross-license the Fractal technology (or similar). Build a digital preamp that emulates all the classic Mesa Bass amps, from the D-180 on forward. It would require a minimalist set of resources compared to the current Fractal hardware, previous gen processor would do fine, etc. Most of the work aside from packaging has already been done.

Then build it into a chassis that had genuine Mesa look-and-feel dials for inputs, plus a rotary switch to select which amp to emulate. The key would be a hybrid analog/digital control setup where you could operate the amp fully with knob twiddling alone, but also get deep into programming from a computer. The dials would be Mesa look and feel, but many would change function depending on what amp emulation was currently selected. These variable function dials would need a digital label of some sort.

Also, keep the modules that simulate different Mesa cabinets for DI or recording use.

Incorporate it into a rack form factor with a class D power section, and offer a customizable rack case in a classic bass head styled form-factor.

Let the emulation handle the simulation of power tubes.

While there are so many things wrong with this suggestion from a business standpoint, the upside would be a Mesa amp that has every Mesa bass amp ever built included in one, easy to operate unit. It could be a premium product that is heavy on R&D and licensing, but not so much on COGS.

The differentiation (over just buying a Fractal) would be the Mesa look and feel, as well as the endorsement of the emulations along with expected fine tuning of them to make them "just right".

Part of the appeal of this idea to me is preserving the legacy of the amazing catalog of Mesa bass amps made over the past 40-ish years.

Oh, and for an extra upcharge give the option to add a limited number of non-Mesa emulations from the Fractal catalog.

Well, at least you’re not asking for much. )

 

[Leo was right]

There are some challenges like this in the guitar world, but the 6L6 is still (mostly) a well built tube, and many of the amps do not run these tubes as hard as the KT-88 (which has a unique tone and overdrive character at high voltages because of how the screen current interact with the plate current and the harmonics that this introduces. The driver topology is also quite different, actually much of the power amp circuit is quite different compared specifically to the Strategy/Prodigy.

Over the years, I have seen consistency issues (in a variety of applications) with EL-84's, much of it mechanical where after a few hundred heating/cooling cycles there is enough change in internal structure that they will make some mechanical noise. The is 100% a tube issue, as it occurs regardless of the amp the tube is used in. There is a little bit of this in the El-34 as well, but nowhere near the extent. The 6V6 is a pretty stout little tube, relatively trouble-free but like the EL-84, is limited to lower powered applications.

The Subway series was never intended to go after the same tone market as the Strategy/Prodigy, it's just a way different tone. There are plenty of players who do not care for the Stratigy/Prodigy, and who prefer the Subway, or the Walkabout, but the Strategy/Prodigy was never intended for that player to begin with. It's more like the Carbines, in your face, brash, knock you over your head with little politeness hard rock and metal amp.

Hope this helps.

In 1980 I was playing on a 1975 Ampeg V4B, then it was a dark era for finding good tubes and the 6L6 was maybe the more consistent no. to buy, it is around that time that Boogie went out with the 400+ and the Bass Buster 200.

Could it be nice to release a 6L6 version of the Prodigy / Strategy ? 400+ rides again!

 

[Leo was right]

Never had roadies and still moving 2 fridges. Unlike popular believe they still punish a 2x12 and not really that heavy.

It's all relative to what people are doing but yes majority of the market doesn't benefit from a sealed cabinet.

Quad 6L6 100watts
Quad 6550 200 watts

It's not difficult to design amps that work with all these horrible tubes.

Absolutely agree Leo was right

Not to mention theses rating are for normal non-ultralinear circuit, my Bassman 135 push 135 W. (only 40 lbs) with a quartet of 6L6 in ultralinear. And sound gorgeous.

 

[DigitalMan]

If you had a 400+ in 1980, then you also had one of these:

 

[Leo was right]

It's not particularly the bias drift that's the cause (but it does or can contribute). There other parameters that also drift, things like the ratio of screen to plate current under load (especially overdrive) and temperature become very important at high voltages. When these drift a lot between tubes, it can become a real problem.

I have designed some pretty sophisticated biasing schemes (some buried within tube amps, and some similar ones buried within solid state amps), but just when you think you have everything foolproof, something new and different comes along to cause a re-think of the original concepts.

I could design a tube amp along the lines of the industrial/commercial equipment that I used to service, but they would be larger, heavier and much more expensive. They would last a lifetime and be relatively troublefree with questionable tonal qualities and likely commercially unsuccessful though. I used to service industrial servo amps based on 6550's, un-freekin-believably robust and very audio like amps that would run 24/7 for several years without the need for service/retube.

About reliability, the problem with guitar and bass amp is the vibrations, vintage Ampeg design have some kind of suspension to avoid that. It is not a bad idea to put a slice of styrofoam between the head and the cabs. Remember the Pete Townsend stack of Hiwatt amps beside the cabs.

 

[Leo was right]

If you had a 400+ in 1980, then you also had one of these:

View attachment 3088280

What the F*** is that!

 

[DigitalMan]

What the F*** is that!

 

[Leo was right]

Sorry for the confusion, the Carbines are more in the Strategy/Prodigy tone family (aggressive, more in your face, brash). The Walkabouts and Subways are more middle of the road, probably a better fit for a wider range of players and music styles IMO. There will always be exceptions of course.

How do you classified the MPulse family into that?

 

[Leo was right]

Sad to hear this, but this definitely confirms some of my fears and experience owning the Prodigy. Voltages at the venues around me vary wildly, and that Prodigy can sound amazing, or totally sterile on the same settings depending on the room. There's a couple of other guys here in Bmore that run Mesa tube heads, and they bring out huge power regulators to manage voltage variables. Adding a regulator kind of defeats the purpose of a lightweight tube head though...

I'm still glad I own it and will probably keep it forever. I feel like it gives me the best of the Mesa tube thing in a portable package, looks really cool, and will probably be a lifelong love/hate relationship as it comes on and off the shelf. Like @agedhorse said, those of us that actually gig with these heads knew what we were getting into. Its not just an amp, its a whole personality you have to get to know...like knowing my truck needs an extra 5 minutes on a cold day before the brakes work...the prodigy works great at venue A, but not venue B etc...It forces you to consider it in your playing and approach.

The real question is what do I get as my daily amp for when I'm mad at the Prodigy?

Do people realise that Mesa acheive to make a 250 watts head into a 30 pounds package?

 

[Leo was right]

Something with 6 6l6s and 3 preamp tubes +1 for the di out two channels one clean, one dirty but not stupid dirty. Hp/lp filters voice knob, 2 ohm capable

/thread

Bass Buster 200 head, I wish to had one, one day, a real classic

 

[Leo was right]

Same here! One of the best, not to say the best on-board compressor. Same on the M-Pulse series

I would like to know if it is the same than the MPulse. Sound great too.

 

[Leo was right]

I would like to know if it is the same than the MPulse. Sound great too.

Sorry I readed it too fast...

 

[MarkA]

I had the idea to throw a class D module into this broken mpulse 600, I started the project but changed my mind and did something else with the module. So I will rebuilt it as original, cause a classic is a classic.

Look at the nice space there is for a class D module into this amp.

I know it is looking funny but this came defect from a guy saying he cannot get some parts in the output section and I already had a Powersoft DM1000 module that fit exactly into the space so it make sense to retrofit. By the time I troubleshoot the preamp section, I need to use my module so I put it back in his box find it more convenient to use it as a slave amp by now, during that time I realise that the diagnostic of the guy was wrong and I have everything to put it back together, but it could have been a prototype for what we discuss earlier.

Repair parts for the M-Pulse amps are available to any authorized service center.

We can not help that a technician or do it yourself repair attempt was unable to do a proper diagnosis or understands how to correctly repair the amp.

Somewhere in one of the Walkabout threads, a few years back, someone posted a class D power section mod he'd done to his Walkabout. I believe that the amp was non-functioning before the mod. It might have been before the Subway amps came out, but I'm not sure. I remember that there were photos and that it occasioned some discussion -- and I think that the modder lived in somewhere in Europe -- but I don't recall much more than that.

If you had a 400+ in 1980, then you also had one of these:

View attachment 3088280

This bears a striking resemblance to the tube odometer/[CLASSIFIED] my great-grandfather developed for the BPRD back in the 1930s. They still use them to [CLASSIFIED] in places like [CLASSIFIED] and during [CLASSIFIED]. They draw a crazy amount of current but, apparently, the newer devices can't cope with [CLASSIFIED] while [CLASSIFIED] or under [CLASSIFIED]. Wild, hunh?

 

[MarkA]

This is an instructional video, right?

 

[agedhorse]

The M-pulse is more of a dry, neutral sounding Walkabout.