Mesa Subway D-350!

[mikeswals]

Doesn’t the D350 come with a bag as well? The Magellan 350 is about a hundred dollars less, however, it does not come?

Yes it includes a bag.

 

[jnewmark]

So is the Voicing control just another term for " Contour " ?

 

[agedhorse]

So is the Voicing control just another term for " Contour " ?

Its all about descriptions, there are many different contour/voicing curves. They are all different.

 

[Texican]

Yes it includes a bag.

That’s what I thought. So you get the bag and the made in USA thing, and it’s about $150 more. I could purchase the Genzler bag for $70, and that would leave $80 in savings, with the trade off that it wasn’t made in the USA.

For me?… I don’t need the bag, and I don’t care about country of origin. So *for me personally*, I would rather have the savings rather than pay the extra cost for the bag and USA production. But I’m not everyone, and some people care very much about those things. Additionally, some people might feel that a high end amp should always come with a bag. I was lucky that I already had a gator mixer bag that was a perfect fit, but if I didn’t, the whole bag thing may have been a bigger selling point for me.

I don’t envy the task of having to make these business decisions. You’ll never make everyone happy and someone will always have a complaint about something. When you’re buying an amp of the caliber that Mesa and Genzler are putting out, I think that the feature set and tone should be the biggest determining factors over which way to go. It’s like choosing between steak or lobster… You can’t really go wrong either way, and the fact that one comes with a fork shouldn’t be that big of a deal.

 

[jnewmark]

Its all about descriptions, there are many different contour/voicing curves. They are all different.

So, in the " Quick Overview ", it states " Variable Voicing (Flat to Vintage Scoop ". Does that mean the midrange freqs get lessened the more you turn it to the right ?

 

[steelbed45]

My amp arrived today. I played for about an hour and just like reported previously, the amp wasn't even warm to the touch.

 

[12bass]

Its all about descriptions, there are many different contour/voicing curves. They are all different.

Understood. That's why it would be helpful to get a little technical explanation of what it does, like "a variable mid scoop which goes from flat to -10dB at 500Hz" or "a complex variable combination of mid-scoop and treble cut, that provides a variety of tones from modern to vintage: -8dB at 600Hz at 12:00, -6dB treble shelf at 4kHz when fully clockwise", or something like that that gives some specifications on what it does.

 

[Al Kraft]

Below is what I hope is a useful description for the vocing control. Admittedly it's not detailed specifications as you might find in a simple mid-scoop filter because given the circuit's design there are multiple things going on simultaneously. Agedhorse can provide additional insights, but hopefully this at least provides an answer to the question about what the control was designed to do.

This active eq control modifies the amplifier’s response from a more flat like curve (in the counter-clockwise position) to a more vintage curve (in the clockwise position) by modifying and shifting the frequency response in all regions with a simple turn of the knob. As the control is rotated clockwise, the low end increases and the high end increases while the midrange decreases and shifts upward. Common uses for the more vintage positions are the old school funk and slap tones, and rock tones where a rounder bottom and a little bite are needed. Experimentation is an important part of discovering the potential of this powerful tool. Unlike many simple “mid scoop” knobs, this control has more going on in the circuit to keep things musical and useful in terms of not losing key mids that help define the bass in a mix.

 

[12bass]

... As the control is rotated clockwise, the low end increases and the high end increases while the midrange decreases and shifts upward.

This is useful information. It would be nice to get a general idea of what the center frequencies are, how they shift, and how much boost/cut is going on. Guessing I'm not alone in saying that the terms 'modern' and 'vintage' are not that helpful, as some see a scoop as modern, others as vintage (e.g. slap tone). When I think of vintage, I tend to think of perhaps a bit thick in the lower midrange and somewhat rolled-off in the upper treble, not mid-scooped.

 

[12bass]

Still waiting for a voicing control that leaves vintage and modern behind and gives you a tone from The Future.

 

[jnewmark]

This is useful information. It would be nice to get a general idea of what the center frequencies are, how they shift, and how much boost/cut is going on. Guessing I'm not alone in saying that the terms 'modern' and 'vintage' are not that helpful, as some see a scoop as modern, others as vintage (e.g. slap tone). When I think of vintage, I tend to think of perhaps a bit thick in the lower midrange and somewhat rolled-off in the upper treble, not mid-scooped.

Not trying to be a wise ass here, but, a Contour knob by any other name...

 

[12bass]

Not trying to be a wise ass here, but, a Contour knob by any other name...

Was thinking of Ampeg as an example. I have an SVP-PRO, and in the manual they state:

Bass: ±12dB @ 40Hz
Midrange: +12dB, -15dB @ Frequency selected (220, 450, 800, 1.6k or 3kHz)
Treble: ±12dB @ 4kHz
Ultra Lo: +3dB @ 40Hz, -12dB @ 500Hz
Ultra Hi: +8dB @ 8kHz
Bright: +7dB @ 2kHz

Wonder what the Ultra Hi and Ultra Lo buttons do? There it is! So, something similar for the Voicing knob would be appreciated. Calling it 'Contour' doesn't explain how it affects the tone.

 

[jnewmark]

Was thinking of Ampeg as an example. I have an SVP-PRO, and in the manual they state:

Bass: ±12dB @ 40Hz
Midrange: +12dB, -15dB @ Frequency selected (220, 450, 800, 1.6k or 3kHz)
Treble: ±12dB @ 4kHz
Ultra Lo: +3dB @ 40Hz, -12dB @ 500Hz
Ultra Hi: +8dB @ 8kHz
Bright: +7dB @ 2kHz

Wonder what the Ultra Hi and Ultra Lo buttons do? There it is! So, something similar for the Voicing knob would be appreciated. Calling it 'Contour' doesn't explain how it affects the tone.

I guess I can understand that, but any " Contour " knob I've ever had on a bass amp since the late ' 80's, has boosted highs and lows, while knocking down Mids as you turn the knob to the right. Would that be considered, " Vintage " ? That seems to be what the Voicing knob is doing here, with something else going on with the Mids, while they are being diminished. Of course, I may be totally misunderstanding this whole thing. You're right, it needs more of an explanation. Maybe Agedhorse will wander in and further explain it.

 

[musicman556]

Just chiming in to say that I like the fact that Andy/Mesa include bags with their amps.

I like that my TT800 came with a sweet bag, and was a bit disappointed that my Tone Hammer and Legacy amps did not. I have a few other things to sell first, but am looking forward to purchasing a USA made, bag-including D350. If this thing can give me a little dirt, I may let go of the Tone Hammer 500.

 

[Michael Vee]

Still no manual on the Mesa site for the 350. In reading the manual for the D-800, the 350 appears to be the same in most respects as the 800. Obviously, the power amp is different, 350 vs. 800 watts, and 4 ohms vs. 2 ohms minimum. 350 has no fan and so is smaller, as the 800 fan takes up a fair amount of width. The 350 has a bright switch, the 800 a deep switch. But the controls and the I/O otherwise appear to be the same.

Are there other differences in the two amps, Andy, other than dimensions and weight?

 

[agedhorse]

So, in the " Quick Overview ", it states " Variable Voicing (Flat to Vintage Scoop ". Does that mean the midrange freqs get lessened the more you turn it to the right ?

Yes, plus other things also happen simultaneously

Still waiting for a voicing control that leaves vintage and modern behind and gives you a tone from The Future.

For that to happen, we would have to delay the past so the future becomes the present. (This is actually done in a compression algorithm called a look-ahead compressor/limiter).

I guess I can understand that, but any " Contour " knob I've ever had on a bass amp since the late ' 80's, has boosted highs and lows, while knocking down Mids as you turn the knob to the right. Would that be considered, " Vintage " ? That seems to be what the Voicing knob is doing here, with something else going on with the Mids, while they are being diminished. Of course, I may be totally misunderstanding this whole thing. You're right, it needs more of an explanation. Maybe Agedhorse will wander in and further explain it.

Many contour controls dip the mids, some also boost either the lows, highs and some both. There is no standard.

It's a little hard to describe, I kind of gave up on providing numbers because it was more complicated than the benefits that the numbers might provide (almost always misunderstood anyway).

Al's description above is about as descriptive and accurate as it gets.

 

[BlueTalon]

To add to all of that, I would have been happy with something like this done in conjunction Gibson and produced off shore but it was done here and kept at the professional grade we all expected from Mesa.

It has been emphasized here by many vocal members that built here in the US was VERY important. We addressed this by doing exactly this, but it does cost a little bit more.

Speaking for myself (and speaking as someone who has just purchased a D-800), I'd rather spend the additional money, than save money by buying the same thing made in China. I have nothing against the Chinese people, but I'm not a fan of the government. I'd be less opposed to buying things manufactured in, say, Viet Nam or Thailand (or anywhere else) but it's nice to buy things made in the USA.

 

[BlueTalon]

For that to happen, we would have to delay the past so the future becomes the present. (This is actually done in a compression algorithm called a look-ahead compressor/limiter).

That made me laugh.

 

[ardgedee]

That made me laugh.

Not a joke: "The look-ahead function is designed to overcome the problem of being forced to compromise between slow attack rates that produce smooth-sounding gain changes, and fast attack rates capable of catching transients. Look-ahead is implemented by splitting the input signal and delaying one side (the audio signal) by the look-ahead time. The non-delayed side (the gain control signal) is used to drive the compression of the delayed signal, which then appears at the output. This way a smooth-sounding slower attack rate can be used to catch transients. The cost of this solution is added audio latency through the processor."

 

[Al Kraft]

Not trying to be a wise ass here, but, a Contour knob by any other name...

That's a fair comment...although I'd like to add that IMO the SW implementation of that kind of circuit is a bit more musical and useful than many I've come across over the years. Clearly opinions will vary on that depending on each player's tone and voicing goals.