If you are taking about XLR, there is this solution. Pin-2 and pin-3 are reversed.
Invalid Link Removed
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Mesa Subway Plus preamp
- Thread starter Zbysek
- Start date
If you are taking about XLR, there is this solution. Pin-2 and pin-3 are reversed.
Invalid Link Removed
Chef
In Memoriam
Or build a small box with a switch to toggle between in phase and 180 degrees out of phase.
No good dead...Should have included a tuner and compressor!
This would work with a preamp line or mic level output signal. If you are connecting the pre output to a XLR balanced power amp input or to self powered speakers, it will reverse the XLR phase.
Chef
In Memoriam
So, if you want the tube preamp, just get the WD-800, and use that for your ampless gig. That’s what I am doing with a Demeter Bass400; and it works like a charm. I totally get your directions. It’s just that, as Andy pointed out, the logistics of getting that tube stage in a pedalboard box requires trade offs that may defeat the purpose.
View attachment 3231202
Otherwise, I used the original Mesa Subway preamp/DI for quite a while with great results; and this new iteration clearly shows that Andy listened very carefully to all the user feedback. Nice job, @agedhorse !!
that is certainly a way to go. But, a costly route given the cost for the full-bown head just to use the preamp section. I would be reluctant to put something like that on the floor for fear of it getting trashed in a hurry. So, logistically, I'd likely be looking at some place off the pedal board anyway. It seems just a preamp could be a smaller foot print, cost less and could be mounted safely on a pedal board. I'm hopeful Andy will figure something out along the tube preamp line. Personally, I'm not married to something the size of a "standard" pedal. The current Mesa preamp is larger, I'm fine with that. Power requirements would likely need to be more than the 9V we're used to. I get that too and would certainly be willing to run dedicated power to support it. Like so many others, I used to have a rack system and it seems tube preamps logistically worked in that application. I still have an Ampeg SVT-IIp which is one rack space. Would love to see something from Mesa in a smaller footprint.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,952
- 5
- 220,600
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
For upright, I would recommend the Rosette Preamp-DI. Has phase reverse and a higher Q notch filter.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,952
- 5
- 220,600
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Would a higher end tube based Studio preamp-DI be of interest?
If so, what features would you like to see, and how much would you be willing to spend?
Would likely need to be AC mains powered, is this an issue?
I'd certainly be interested. Putting it in a rack form may solve the ac mains power issue a bit....just sayin'...for us pre/power amp guys.
Right there with you.
But, here’s my perspective FWIW. My rig is for ampless no backline. So, my FOH feed is my only signal chain. As far as cost goes, sure there are cheaper DI’s; but, better DI’s, like the REDDI, are already up in that price space.
But, those tube DI’s have no amp in them. The Bass400 or the WD-800 may be overkill for that application; but, they can serve both purposes. That’s all I’m saying. A preamp tube in the Mesa Preamp/DI would be cool, but would require its own 120VAC, and gets into the space of 50 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound bag. If Andy can do it, I’d use it. Until then, I’m more than impressed with what he’s done.
One other thing: the Mesa preamp DI can be mounted on your mic stand with a conventional tablet holder. Part of that is footprint and part is weight. That puts the controls in a convenient off the floor location. With a tube and 120VAC, the weight would be higher; and I’d be more concerned about the mast mounting. That’s why my amp is on a separate stand off the floor.
Definitely new paradigms.
Hi Andy,
thanks for your response, I echo the sentiments of others. As a long standing Mesa customer, I truly appreciate how responsive you and others I've dealt with are in terms of customer service.
YES! to be succinct. something similar to the D800 preamp with a straightforward tone stack driven by tubes could provide the tube warmth most of us crave. I prefer simple since the tone I use does change depending on the song so, I tend to set the preamp and color it with switchable outboard effects. DI to send signal to FOH and connectors to a power amp would be great. Nice to haves would be an aux in and headphones out (1/8 jack) would make the unit very versatile. I tend to use the deep switch on the preamp and d800 head since I find it to be useful. To complement that feature one for bright would be helpful too. I would expect AC power in something like this given that the tubes have to be driven with quite a bit of power to work correctly from my limited understanding. In terms of price, I would have to assume it would be less than a full blown amp head but, understanding the complexity would not expect it to be "cheap" per se. Let's face it, many maufacturers have their take on a hybrid amp. Not many have offered smaller packaged preamps. Only a few come to mind. I would think that there demand for such a unit given that compact, light and portable seem to be the direction everyone is wanting to head. I moved away from a rack system mostly becuause of the bulky size. I've found that a pedal board is a very portable way to go. I tend to play in situations that run the gamit from very small to larger in all kinds of different venues. so, sound reinforcement is constantly a challenge. We use IEMs now so, on stage sound is much less important than it once was.
Last edited:
It would be nice if all amps had a studio grade noise floor in terms of hum. A preamp/DI built from the ground up for studio use is quite attractive.
A lot of studio equipment is AC powered, if the noise floor is low it shouldn’t be a deal breaker. Gear based on vintage designs with an external power supply for DC rails and phantom is not uncommon. High voltage DC on a cable will receive the full attention of every regulatory reviewer
Cost to a studio is not a big issue. But the market is small.
On the negative side in terms of a DI:
-There are an abundance of plugins that simulate tube warmth that people have been embracing.
-Every interface box has an instrument input.
-Modeling entire amps is pretty refined. How can you compete with a $29 product (less 10% with a coupon) on sale. PRS SuperModels – Amp Simulation Plugins | Waves. He modeling market is saturated with similar products.
A lot of studio equipment is AC powered, if the noise floor is low it shouldn’t be a deal breaker. Gear based on vintage designs with an external power supply for DC rails and phantom is not uncommon. High voltage DC on a cable will receive the full attention of every regulatory reviewer
Cost to a studio is not a big issue. But the market is small.
On the negative side in terms of a DI:
-There are an abundance of plugins that simulate tube warmth that people have been embracing.
-Every interface box has an instrument input.
-Modeling entire amps is pretty refined. How can you compete with a $29 product (less 10% with a coupon) on sale. PRS SuperModels – Amp Simulation Plugins | Waves. He modeling market is saturated with similar products.
Last edited:
Andy, I believe that is where the whole ampless thing is headed. If that helps.
I certainly would not have a problem with that (I'm thinking EHX BIG size). Now, lets say "if" one "could" be produced, "would" it surpass the unique tonal characteristic limit that couldn't be done with the original walkabout? In other words, if there is any confusion on what I am asking...LOL, I'm wonder if I can plug a WD stomp into a higher powered M-Pulse 360/600 and achieve the Walkabout tone that could not original be produced beyond the original 300 watts?
It would be of interest to me.
I know you don't need a tube in the front end to sound good (Thunderfunk and Quilter are two of all time favorite amps), but a nice and simple tube front end is pretty nice, really appealing, and I think lot's of folks agree. I think this crowd probably tends towards the more old-school - passive fender into a nice simple tube front end, but you can see more of these folks going modern/old-school. That is, they are needing to meet the needs of todays modern player in terms of having some pedals, using IEM, being able to travel light, etc...
I think the popularity of the Noble, the REDDI (not a pre), Arkham, Shaw Audio, and a ton of those high end boxes show there there are folks who are into this. Heck, JimmyM is convincing guys to cary around the PF-20T head as a Pre/DI front end. I don't care for that "brick" or half rack style box. If I'm gonna go that route, might as well have a micro head. A DI-size pedal (something that could go on a small board) is way more appealing.
The other option seems to be rack gear (alembic, Monique, Arkham), which is cool, and I have the TBP-1, and would love to try some others. But that's a big rack size amp.
I actually just spoke with a former BL who moved to TN. He floated the idea of me doing several east coast runs with him over the next year - kind of acoustic singer/songwriter with a small band. Since I would be flying, the first thing that popped into my head, was what pre/DI could I take in my luggage along with a tuner and a few cables. Assuming a rented combo or powered speaker type "monitor" for these gigs. -- actually looking at the Subway Di as a possibility, Sadowsky SBP-1, Broughton Silver Deluxe & my countryman, among many other options, if this gig happens. All non-tube stuff. Noble, Summit, and Shaw are on the list... Lots of pros and cons to weigh - including cost.
I know there is a lot that goes into pricing, so hard to say. The 1K price tag on the Noble has kind of kept me (and I think a few others) away from trying it. The Summit Td-100 is actually pretty high on my list, and can be had used for like 350, new for 600, but form factor and no EQ are holding me back (although that loading control is kind of awesome). Shaw Tube Injection PreAmp looks very cool, but again close to 1K.
Tone Hammer pedal is about 300, Subway just over 300. I think somewhere in between would hit a very sweet spot, so I guess that would be around the 600-650. Again, I know a lot goes into pricing a product, so no idea if that's realistic.
If it's a "Pedal" type format, meant to go on a board, they you have to run power to the board anyway. So a multi-tap extension cord could solved that.
I don't see lack of battery power as an issue. It would be interesting to see how many guys put a 9v Subway or TH pedal pre/DIs with batteries. This seems like one of those no-win questions, where some guys would complain about running one more cable to a place where they are already running cables.
Or, like the noble, having some pedal power on the unit could solve this issue. The Shaw has one 9v output (could power your tuner or more with a daisy chain). That set up is VERY appealing to me, but agin, can't make everyone happy. I've seen some guys complain about the non-isolated pedal power on the Noble, but some of those guys are running pretty crazy pedals. Seems to be fine with most folks.
Could be cool to do a throw back kind of thing - like the front end of the D180 - Vol, M/T/B, master.
-- EDIT -- sorry if I am misunderstanding what is meant by "high end - studio quality" vs something more geared for all purpose.
Last edited:
Love the Summit. No eq is a thing. Into a PA and it won’t matter. It puts out some volts so it can drive powered speakers where a Countryman can’t. You have lots of choices. Get a Monique. However my Summit fits in a padded Tambourine bag.
