Mesa vs Aguilar?

[Al Kraft]

Al, I've got to ask.
Out of the pile of heads you have, which one do you normally grab for a rock or R&B gig.
(you know, gig; like when musicians would get together and play music for an audience ...)

Recently I've been grabbing my WD-800 or the TT-800 to go with the SW112/115 cabs most of the time. I'm really lucky in that almost everything I do includes adequate and competent FOH support.

For smaller venues I use my AK Changeling 112T or Berg CN212 with a WD-800/TT-800 or WA (the WA and Berg CN is killer for classic rock, folk and country ina medium size venue). The WD and TT have relegated my D-800 to more of a back-up head these days - and yes it's great to have a back-up amp that's better than what I used to dream about as a main amp.

If I'm outside without much FOH help the Mesa PH 410 and/or PH 212 cabs and Carbine heads are just fun in a cruising in a classic muscle car kind of way.

 

[craigmack1979]

I know the original poster asked about the tone hammer, but I feel like the AG700 is worth mentioning. It is more capable of producing the deep lows of the Mesa, much more so that the tone hammer.

My TH 700 has great lows without being boomy or excessive … for funk . R&B….. jazz ….blues … reggae the tonehammer rules with musicality… expressive …the tonehammer can make bad pick ups sound good . So in my world the tonehammer wins in landslide that’s why it’s so popular

 

[lpbfender]

I went with the Aggie AG700
And when I want tube and tube grind… I put a Le Bass preamp on front… now I have four channel options: le bass off and AG700 straight; le bass channel one on clean with bass boost; le bass with channel two for straight grind/od; LeBass with both channels on for blend

 

[craigmack1979]

Ive recently switched from a Rumble 500 head to a D800...and I also play through a GK MB212. I wouldn't describe the D800 as "dark"...i guess when compared to a "brighter" eq'd head, maybe low-mid forward, but i can get plenty of snap and clarity.

People use metaphors to describe Amps that make little sense . What does dark even mean ?? No light ??? No treble ??? What sounds great to one persons ears might be irritating to another . I hate hearing bass playing with too much treble … clanking frets … and irritating highs . I need bass with some balls to it !! That mesa subway kicks ass !!!

 

[IvanMike]

I keep wondering if it’s worth while to buy the tone hammer preamp pedal to use as an option in front of my Mesa into the auxiliary or effects loop depending on which model I’m using. I really do love the Mesa though.

 

[Grahams Groove]

I keep wondering if it’s worth while to buy the tone hammer preamp pedal to use as an option in front of my Mesa into the auxiliary or effects loop depending on which model I’m using. I really do love the Mesa though.

I had the TH500 for a spell, and I frankly think the Subway heads (owned all three, stuck with the D-800+) are far superior as complete amplifiers go. More power, more tonal range, wider frequency response, and far more flexible. I later ran a THDI in front of it to have that gritty/wooly/tubey gain on tap as needed, and I thought the THDI was great for that. If that Tone Hammer sound is your holy grail and all you need for bass tone, then the head makes sense. That said, there's a reason Aggie has the both AG and TH heads in their arsenal - the TH is a niche, fairly one-dimensional tool, and lots of people don't want/need just that one, specific sound.

 

[IvanMike]

I had the TH500 for a spell, and I frankly think the Subway heads (owned all three, stuck with the D-800+) are far superior as complete amplifiers go. More power, more tonal range, wider frequency response, and far more flexible. I later ran a THDI in front of it to have that gritty/wooly/tubey gain on tap as needed, and I thought the THDI was great for that. If that Tone Hammer sound is your holy grail and all you need for bass tone, then the head makes sense. That said, there's a reason Aggie has the both AG and TH heads in their arsenal - the TH is a niche, fairly one-dimensional tool, and lots of people don't want/need just that one, specific sound.

I agree I really prefer the Mesa heads and owned all four of them. I stuck with a D 800 and the 800+ although I’ll probably pick up another WD eventually. I found the tone hammer sound kind of interesting but I certainly would not want to be stuck with it.

 

[Al Kraft]

I too own a TH500, the THDI, and most of the Mesa SW heads. The TH is exceptional at what it does, but it doesn't have the versatility of the Mesa SW heads. I also find that I have to work a bit harder and pick my cabs carefully to get the TH to work well in a mix where the Mesa heads are easier to dial in with any cab in any mix...at least for me.

 

[Lemur Bassman]

I've used each for several years. Both are fantastic but sound quite different. The Aguilar, to my ears, doesn't have the high end or deep lows of the Mesa. It also can go from mild break up to full on fuzz using the unintuitive gain, drive, and mid controls. It definitely takes some experimentation to figure out how they interact with each other. The Mesa is very clean and has much more range in its eq. Although both sound great at nearly any setting it can take some experimentation with the controls to get a sound that works for you.

Both are very well made, reliable, and loud. I play in a rock band with 2 guitar players with 50 watt amps and and could always be heard (I'll talk about cabs later). Volume to my ears on both is very comparable despite the wattage differences.

Both sounded good through the variety of cabs I played them through - SWR sealed Marcus 410, Subway 112, 115, and currently 212. I would recommend using at least two speakers with either amp. I was using just the 115 for a while and while it worked, there were times where I felt like I might be driving the cab a little to hard.

I had the TH500 for years, got the D800 when it first came out and used that since 2016. I recently have gone back to the TH500 just out of current tonal preference.

I definitely recommend testing each out if possible and not going by what you read since taste is so subjective. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

"The Aguilar, to my ears, doesn't have the high end or deep lows of the Mesa." Are you referring to the Aguilar TH or AG700? IF the AG700, are you saying that it has more "low-end" on the deep switch than the Aguilar AG700 has?

 

[OllieDox]

"The Aguilar, to my ears, doesn't have the high end or deep lows of the Mesa." Are you referring to the Aguilar TH or AG700? IF the AG700, are you saying that it has more "low-end" on the deep switch than the Aguilar AG700 has?

Tone Hammer 500. I’ve never played the AG700.

 

[Parzival]

I've played the TH, AG, and D800. Speaking just to the amp by itself, I like the D800 the best, and I think it also handles running pedals into the front of it the best. I liked the AG the least. Did not like it at all. Just think it was lifeless sounding. I liked the TH, but it does have a pretty significant and unique color to it. Can I explain that color? No, but it is kind of cool, and I wouldn't mind playing one all the time if that was the amp I had. The D800 has a bit of color, but it is a little more subtle. It is all really personal preference when it comes any of them and what kind of color or no color you like. I just don't know about the AG though. I don't know what people see in it. Maybe it's me.

As someone talked about up above, I just got a NUX MLD preamp and am excited to try running the TH preamp in it into the D800 and seeing how that sounds. Might be the perfect mix for some things.

 

[Diplock]

I used a TH350 for several years and when it died got a D-350. The Aguilar is a fine amp that served me well but the Mesa has to my ear a more pleasing low end. There's something about the design that allows the nicer parts of the low/low mid to be more prominent without loosing definition or burying the upper mids.

 

[Ejtibbetts]

Recently I've been grabbing my WD-800 or the TT-800 to go with the SW112/115 cabs most of the time. I'm really lucky in that almost everything I do includes adequate and competent FOH support.

For smaller venues I use my AK Changeling 112T or Berg CN212 with a WD-800/TT-800 or WA (the WA and Berg CN is killer for classic rock, folk and country ina medium size venue). The WD and TT have relegated my D-800 to more of a back-up head these days - and yes it's great to have a back-up amp that's better than what I used to dream about as a main amp.

If I'm outside without much FOH help the Mesa PH 410 and/or PH 212 cabs and Carbine heads are just fun in a cruising in a classic muscle car kind of way.

Reviving this old thread because I’m in the middle of all of this now. I bucked against the TH for a long time. I tried a used TH350 today through an Ampeg 212 and I liked it a lot, but it’s not a tone I’d want all of the time. I’m not the type to want to own multiple amps, but I like some tonal variety pending on what I need it for.

Question is: would the TT800 and THDI give me the flexibility I want? I also have a Berg Super Pre on the way, maybe that could give me TH wooliness that was distinct?

Cab wise, the search continues, but the 212 was quite nice compared to the 210, 410, and 810s I’ve had. Regardless, I think 12s are right where I want to be. Will visit cabs again later.

 

[Al Kraft]

Reviving this old thread because I’m in the middle of all of this now. I bucked against the TH for a long time. I tried a used TH350 today through an Ampeg 212 and I liked it a lot, but it’s not a tone I’d want all of the time. I’m not the type to want to own multiple amps, but I like some tonal variety pending on what I need it for.

Question is: would the TT800 and THDI give me the flexibility I want? I also have a Berg Super Pre on the way, maybe that could give me TH wooliness that was distinct?

Cab wise, the search continues, but the 212 was quite nice compared to the 210, 410, and 810s I’ve had. Regardless, I think 12s are right where I want to be. Will visit cabs again later.

You might be surprised and discover that the TT800 alone can give you enough of what you like about the TH (likely via the Boogie channel) and also offer a wide variety of other voicings. While I have never tried it, the THDI through the SW channel or the effects return should come close to the voicing of the Aguilar TH heads. The lower damping factor of the TT power amp section (lower than most SS heads) will also help you get some of that unique feel and tone of the TH amps.

The best cab for me (and my tone goals) with the TH500 has been the Berg CN212. In all fairness though, I can't name a head that hasn't sounded good to me through that Berg cab. If you are shopping Mesa heads and they have Mesa cabs available to audition, I strongly recommend that you try a SW 115 and the SW212. Both are very impressive and should get you right into the voicing/tone territory you seem to be describing,.

I hope that's helpful.

 

[Ejtibbetts]

It sure was! I bought a TT800 this morning off here actually from another TB’er.

Once it gets here, I’ll go cab shopping and carry my head with me. I haven’t considered a 115 as a single cab. I was really hoping to stick to a single cab regardless and not anything bigger than a 212.

 

[fishdude101101]

I've used each for several years. Both are fantastic but sound quite different. The Aguilar, to my ears, doesn't have the high end or deep lows of the Mesa. It also can go from mild break up to full on fuzz using the unintuitive gain, drive, and mid controls. It definitely takes some experimentation to figure out how they interact with each other. The Mesa is very clean and has much more range in its eq. Although both sound great at nearly any setting it can take some experimentation with the controls to get a sound that works for you.

Both are very well made, reliable, and loud. I play in a rock band with 2 guitar players with 50 watt amps and and could always be heard (I'll talk about cabs later). Volume to my ears on both is very comparable despite the wattage differences.

Both sounded good through the variety of cabs I played them through - SWR sealed Marcus 410, Subway 112, 115, and currently 212. I would recommend using at least two speakers with either amp. I was using just the 115 for a while and while it worked, there were times where I felt like I might be driving the cab a little to hard.

I had the TH500 for years, got the D800 when it first came out and used that since 2016. I recently have gone back to the TH500 just out of current tonal preference.

I definitely recommend testing each out if possible and not going by what you read since taste is so subjective. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

I've also played and gigged both. Both great amps. I agree that the mesa has more highs and lows initially but honestly the tone hammer can do that too if you really aren't afraid to twist the knobs. I think it does +18db on the lows. The tone hammer is warmer to my ears. A lot of people say the mesa is cleaner, but ALL mesa products I've ever played, bass and guitar amps, have this baked in bite to them int the upper mids to lower highs that you can't eq out. You can come close but it puts a big hole in the sound.

The only time an audience member ever complemented me on my tone I was playing an aguilar tone hammer.

 

[Al Kraft]

It sure was! I bought a TT800 this morning off here actually from another TB’er.

Once it gets here, I’ll go cab shopping and carry my head with me. I haven’t considered a 115 as a single cab. I was really hoping to stick to a single cab regardless and not anything bigger than a 212.

The SW115 is an exceptional cab and very convenient as a one cab solution even for larger gigs. I too find that 12" loaded cabs these days (especially 212's) seemed to be voiced just right for me.

While I know that speaker size doesn't determine voicing, designers all just seem to be hitting a nice balanced feel and sound in their 12" loaded cab designs (for my tone goals). WIth that thought in mind, let me just say that the SW115 sounds like "the most room filling, best sounding 112 or 212 cabinet I ever heard".

 

[Ejtibbetts]

The SW115 is an exceptional cab and very convenient as a one cab solution even for larger gigs. I too find that 12" loaded cabs these days (especially 212's) seemed to be voiced just right for me.

While I know that speaker size doesn't determine voicing, designers all just seem to be hitting a nice balanced feel and sound in their 12" loaded cab designs (for my tone goals). WIth that thought in mind, let me just say that the SW115 sounds like "the most room filling, best sounding 112 or 212 cabinet I ever heard".

There is a Schroeder 1212L for sale near me for a great price. I haven’t played any Schroeders though.

Does the SW115 still have some clarity. I haven’t looked up the specs on any cabs yet. I don’t play with a super bright Marcus Miller tone and I may slap a little here and there, but I like to use some simple effects here and there.

 

[Al Kraft]

There is a Schroeder 1212L for sale near me for a great price. I haven’t played any Schroeders though.

Does the SW115 still have some clarity. I haven’t looked up the specs on any cabs yet. I don’t play with a super bright Marcus Miller tone and I may slap a little here and there, but I like to use some simple effects here and there.

We all hear things differently, but I think you'll find that the general consensus is that the SW 115 is nothing like what most remember 15" loaded cabs sounding like years ago. The cab is very full and articulate especially across the mids.

Many of the older 15" cabs were full down low and in the low mids and had some upper end via the horn, but lacked in the critical mids/upper mids area. The SW 115 speaks well across the spectrum with no obvious annoying dips or peaks. Even if it's not the voicing what you're looking for, I think you'll find it to be a remarkably good sounding and very capable cab.

I haven't played a Schroeder cab in so long that any I opinion I would offer would be worthless. However, I will say that if there is one close by that you can try out, I'd make the trip to go hear it.

 

[Ejtibbetts]

We all hear things differently, but I think you'll find that the general consensus is that the SW 115 is nothing like what most remember 15" loaded cabs sounding like years ago. The cab is very full and articulate especially across the mids.

Many of the older 15" cabs were full down low and in the low mids and had some upper end via the horn, but lacked in the critical mids/upper mids area. The SW 115 speaks well across the spectrum with no obvious annoying dips or peaks. Even if it's not the voicing what you're looking for, I think you'll find it to be a remarkably good sounding and very capable cab.

I haven't played a Schroeder cab in so long that any I opinion I would offer would be worthless. However, I will say that if there is one close by that you can try out, I'd make the trip to go hear it.

Thanks for the input! You’re right, I remember the 15s from 20-25 years ago (and older for some of the older cabs) that were so muddy that it went with “bass should be felt not heard” mentality. I play a 5 string (Fender American Ultra) and I will frequently use the low B-Db, but I still want clarity in it. I’ll see if there are any 15’s local to me to try out.