Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Mesa WD-800 vs. TT-800 tone differences
- Thread starter CaptainWally
- Start date
Uncomplicated and bulletproof plug and play ready Mesa quality without additional complications is why. I’d wager a large number of working bassist (perhaps even a majority) might agree that the less options and knobs it takes to dial in a great sound, the better... at least that’s the way I prefer it.
Mesa makes the D800 and the D+800.
Less knobs, easy to dial in!
And you know, on the TT800 you don't have to use both channels. You can use just one and either one by itself doesn't have that many knobs.
Last edited:
View attachment 4297983
Mesa makes the D800 and the D+800.
Less knobs, easy to dial in!
And you know, on the TT800 you don't have to use both channels. You can use just one and either one by itself doesn't have that many knobs.
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,768
- 40,438
- Disclosures
- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
I too find that the simpler the control set the better when in a live performance situation. Having a minimal number of simple, carefully thought-out, and well-integrated controls with the knobs spaced a good way apart works best for me on stage. One of my favorite Mesa heads in that regard is the Carbine M3 and another is the D-800. I'm also mindful that regardless of how high the individual component reliability, the more components you have, the lower the total system reliability.
That said, given the proven reliability of the SW designs and the capabilities (including voicing versatility) they include, I suspect that most folks are finding the design trades and feature sets to be on target. I can't imagine a more bullet proof design or proven track record than what we've seen with the SW series heads. I'd agree that many of the heads are a bit more feature laden than I usually need or typically use. However, on those occasions when one of those controls or features helps save a gig or better dial in my sound in an acoustically challenging venue I'm okay with a bit more crowded set of knobs.
As always, the final design trade-offs are something that will work for some and be a deal-breaker for others.
In fact, shortly after that pic was taken, I did install a single-strip glorified power switch with a few outlets on the back which has been handy to have.
And I ordered the Aguilar padded cover for that rack. It's helped keep the rack in decent shape and help hold in the cables I wrap up and stash in the back. There are no rack lids with this rack. I didn't realize that when I bought, otherwise I might not have. But it's worked out fine and it does look kinda cool. That's what matters, right?...
I agree completely with this. I'm looking at the TT800 but there's one channel I just don't think I'd ever use.
I'm also sucked in by the 400/400+ blurbs that M/B put right front and center in the TT800 right at the top of the page. When I was gigging bassist in the 90's with a good Trace Elliot rig I still always craved the 400+ and that crazy huge 15/4x10 cabinet, I played a few gigs through a friend's and it had THE tone I've always wanted (punch, drive, and the ability to cut through even when our guitarists were using a Fender Twin and Roland JC-120 with tons of effects). Now that I'm older I'd jump at the chance to replicate that sound in a much smaller configuration for home studio use and the odd gig I might have once life returns to normal.
I now see on the D-800 page that it shares the Bass 400+ lineage. It's a little hidden but it's there, and yeah that is probably more like what we're looking for. Now I'm going to learn more about the D-800. Important factors versus the TT-800:
1. Does it have tubes in the preamp? (nope, big negative there)
2. Is Flat/Boost on the D-800 much different to Norm/Shift on the TT-800? (looks pretty close)
3. Do I want O/D Symmetry? (yep - you had me at "like how many tube phase inverters and tube output stages behave in real world tube amps")
So yeah, I'd be the perfect target market for an updated D-800 with a real tube pre and O/D symmetry. Call it the Bass 400+ mark D or something like that and I'll preorder it tomorrow along with a 2x10 and 1x15.
Last edited:
When I first got the TT800, I thought I would never use the Subway channel, but after using this amp for a while, I am discovering that I like the SW channel too. Having both in one box really offers a lot of easy to dial in, high quality tones at my finger tips.
Yeah, I say I don't want one of those cabs then this pops up CL near me...
You seem to be suggesting the TT800, minus the Subway channel. I won't say this amp will never be built, but IMHO it's unlikely.
Here's some potential issues:
The money to design what you want is already spent for the most part, but the circuits will have to be repackaged into a totally new model that probably requires it's own certification; which AFAIK is time consuming and quite expensive. So for Mesa to make what you want, they will have to pay for new certification and also spend considerable capitol to setup an assembly line to make the new model; these factors potentially results in considerable new sunk costs. Based on these issues, I would be surprised if Mesa could offer the TT(Minus) for less than a current TT800; so most people will probably just buy the TT800 because it costs about the same, but has more features. Lastly Mesa hopes to sell enough of each model to recover sunk costs and make a reasonable profit. I think the majority of people will generally be attracted to more features rather than less, so they will opt for the regular TT800. Also many of those who would buy the TT(Minus) would probably buy the standard TT800 if the TT(Minus) is never made. The point here is a TT(Minus) may not generate many new sales; rather, it will most likely cannibalize sales from the TT800.
If you like the Boogie channel, IMHO you can buy the TT800 and have pretty much everything you want, today. The only downside is you get an extra channel that you never have to use. But is it really worth paying the same, or perhaps even more to get less features and a slightly smaller package? I would be very surprised if a enough people say yes to justify making a TT(Minus).
Same- I didn’t expect it at all, but really like the Subway channel at times. They are both significantly different
I'm actually suggesting an upgraded D-800 but I get your point.
On the contrary, Mesa regularly evolves their lineup on both the guitar and bass side of the house to keep up with changing market demands.
This is why I'm suggesting that this new amp be marketed as a Bass 400+ rev D. I think there is a TON of nostalgia demand out there right now, and there are more than a few of us that want simpler amps and are getting sick of the super-complex amp thing. I also play synthesizers, and can say that the simplication and retro waves are sweeping through the boutique companies on that side of the industry. Take a look at Sequential for a prime example of this - their "reissue" Prophet 5 Rev 4 is doing very well and it costs more and has a fraction of the features of the Prophet 6 or Prophet 12.
I'll probably end up buying a TT800 anyway and ignoring the subway channel, but I'm in a very small subset of the market and don't think that I represent the mainstream bass player.
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,768
- 40,438
- Disclosures
- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
I was very upfront with Andy when he was discussing the design concept with Alan (Chef) and me that I didn't think I would be a potential customer for the head. After all the WD was perfect for me and almost made me forget about my other heads. I reiterated that thought as we worked on the manual and right up until being given the opportunity to test out a prototype. Turned out I was completely wrong...the simplicity, versatility, and depth/richness of the tone won me over as soon as I started playing it.
I get the prototype and plug in the power cable...while the front panel looks like it has a ton of controls, it dawns on me that the set for each channel is very straight forward. Sure the tone stacks are different, but it's not like learning to operate a nuclear power plant. Okay, so it was more intuitive than I was expecting...but in my defense it does have a pretty busy looking front control panel.
First I try out up the Boogie channel and I literally didn't want to stop playing - and for the life of me couldn't come up with one good reason why I originally thought I wasn't going to be interested in owning this amp. Then I switch to the SW channel assuming it's going to be a sort of stripped down D-800+ add-on with a few of the WD's voicing elements. I start playing and discover I was wrong again! The SW channel has its own mojo and it's not even close to being a weak sister or poor imitation of any of the other SW heads. Turns out that the TT is a legit two for one deal voicing-wise - and they're both new SW line voices.
Bottom line here is that even having significant insight into what the TT's design has to offer (long before it went into production no less), I underestimated how good both channels would sound. Admittedly the TT won't be perfect for everyone, but even if you think it's not for you, you may end up surprised when you give it try. I sure was!
Just a quick note of thanks for your open participation here, and also for your brilliant designs. It's a competitive market out there, but my purchase will be going to Mesa. I keep on finding that your products set the standard (at least the one in my mind) for tone quality, and the others just don't have what I'm looking for. I'm actually spoiled for choice as I can see either the D-800 or TT-800 working well for me.
If it's not too much, would you give a quick rundown of the decision factors/sonic characteristics for the 2x10, 1x12, and 1x15 for someone using the TT-800? I have seen bits of pieces of this in other threads you have posted in, but I don't think there's a summary of all three.
So, you would intentionally make it a heavier, less capable, amp? What would be the point in that? That would be a huge step backwards in my view.
I can only assume you haven't tried a TT as is.
Then, again, I'm going to assume you haven't actually played with one. I own one. Before I unboxed it, I was a bit worried about the sheer number of features myself. But there are two things that set my mind at ease.
1) The manual. It's almost entertaining to read. I have never been a manual reader. They're wonky and boring. I actually paced back and forth in my jam room and said "OK, man. You gotta read this one. There's just too much going on here." Once I opened it, my mind was set at ease.
2) Its design is ridiculously intuitive. You're looking at all the knobs at once. It's two channels. Neither channel is complicated. They aren't combined, so fiddling with one doesn't affect the other. In other words, you can't "mess up" the Subway channel by fiddling with the Boogie channel.
Each channel is no more complicated than any classic amp you've likely played. Flip tops, SVTs, old Fender, etc. all have their idiosyncrasies and buttons and knobs to dial in. Believe it or not, the TT is not one bit more complicated than those amps. In fact, each channel is similar.
Short version. There's nutn to it.
As for putting it in a big box, that just makes no sense whatsoever. If everything fits in a small, portable package, there just simply isn't a good reason to go backwards on that. Any money you would save in not having the Subway channel would be blown on making the chasis bigger, including a bunch of unnecessary extra mounting hardware to hold a relatively small circuit board in place suspended in the middle of a big box. That's a problem waiting to happen.
Get a TT800 and put masking tape across all the bottom knobs and also tape the channel select switch in the up position, problem solved! I have no idea why Mesa hasn't extended me a job offer yet.
