Mesa WD-800 vs. TT-800 tone differences

[ghunter]

Go figure - I called my dealer and they're not expecting stock on the TT-800 until Sep/Oct.

 

[PatsonGodinho]

*Full disclosure - I purchased my TT 800 through the Mesa artist relations program*

To contribute to the discussion on the TT 800 as a preamp for recording/DI purposes; this is primarily what I am using mine for currently.
I own a Jule Monique, Shift line Olympic, and previously the Noble DI. I don't currently have my Monique as it's currently locked up with my touring setup, and I don't currently have access.

I have been able to A/B it to an Olympic and Noble DI, a number of studio preamps (Neve, API, UA LA-610...etc), Tube DIs (Audio Kitchen & Demeter), and also the DI out of an Ashdown CTM 30.

Long story short - the TT 800 has been in use on the majority of my recording work in the 4 months since it has arrived.
It delivers all I would want/expect from a high end tube preamp, and in particular the brand of overdrive/grit it delivers is more desirable to my ears than the alternatives mentioned above (though the Simone from Jule seems to deliver on this too).
And on top of that I get two flavours of preamp in one box, that is also an amp.

- The Olympic is most similar to the Boogie channel, though lacks some of the dimensionality and depth afforded by the TT800's architecture, as well as having a more limited EQ section compared to the Boogie channel.

- The Monique (and P15 from my understanding) offers something more B15 inspired in voicing, tube and EQ choices.
Not having my Monique to directly compare to, my memory suggests the Subway preamp EQ is more similar to that voicing, but with a variable mid control and hi-pass.

- The Noble IME is not what I'd consider particularly amp-like, and shares more in common with the UA LA-610 preamp in it's sound (to my ears), providing a big warm, creamy, tube-y studio preamp sort of sound. The TT800 can do something similar to this in the subway channel, but I find it to exhibit more harmonic excitement which gives a different presentation to the upper mids in particular, and more of that tube amp "bloom" and dynamic interaction.

- The Ashdown CTM30 shares a similar EQ in some ways to the Boogie channel, but is a very different voicing, and has a higher degree of interactivity between it's EQ controls, as well as much more distortion and dirt available.

The Pre-EQ out of the TT800 is great, and sounds wonderful with any combination of the deep and bright switches, and even with both active it's never too mid-scooped for my needs, and in flat settings compares favourably with the other options available to me. Without any voicing switches engaged all three offer nuanced voicing differences on similarly quality sounding tube-DI sound.

The other thing I have explored has been to take the FX send out of one channel (generally the boogie channel) and use that to feed a separate DI (RNDI or Lightning Boy TI box), whilst then having the other channel active on the amp and feeding a speaker. This then frees me up to EQ one channel as I'd like for a straight DI'd tone, and the other channel can be EQ'd for the speaker cab/mic setup.

Ultimately a lot of this will come do people's tastes in preamps, and the features, controls, and voicing/sounds they want contained within such a device.
Re: the quality comparison of the TT 800 vs the hi-end/'boutique' alternatives - the TT-800 is, for all intents and purposes, houses a high end preamp with a high end class D power amp, and has all the features and performance I would expect from such an instrument.

I have previously owned a Walkabout, but at the time never used it in this context, and have had no direct interaction with the WD 800 outside of trying it in a music setting, so can offer no meaningful comparison there.

Hopefully some of this proves to be of some help and interest to some here.

With the pre-eq and post-eq DI outputs, is it possible to send 2 different signals to the FOH engineers. I basically have a Darkglass pre-amp which is generally connected to the amp's input. I would like to send a pre-eq clean channel and then the post eq Amp gain channel and have the FOH engineer blend both of them?

 

[sunbeast]

With the pre-eq and post-eq DI outputs, is it possible to send 2 different signals to the FOH engineers. I basically have a Darkglass pre-amp which is generally connected to the amp's input. I would like to send a pre-eq clean channel and then the post eq Amp gain channel and have the FOH engineer blend both of them?

Yes thats why there are dual DI outputs. Your DG pre will be in both of them though (unless I'm misunderstanding your goal)

 

[agedhorse]

Yes, but be aware that depending on the functions you select and the signal paths, it may be necessary to flip the polarity on one channel at the console (or in the recording software)

 

[DJ Bebop]

Yeah, I say I don't want one of those cabs then this pops up CL near me...

View attachment 4298348

When I was younger so much younger than today
I never needed anybody's help in any way
But now these days are gone...

 

[_Some Dude]

How does the TT-800 perform as a hard rock/metal bass amp? How hard does it hit? How does it sit next to something like a Rectifier or 5150?

 

[DJ Bebop]

How does the TT-800 perform as a hard rock/metal bass amp? How hard does it hit? How does it sit next to something like a Rectifier or 5150?

If you have enough cabinet(s), it should work good!
I wouldn't want to do it with just a 1x15

 

[_Some Dude]

If you have enough cabinet(s), it should work good!
I wouldn't want to do it with just a 1x15

I have an 810e and a pair of PH410s, but I’m moving to a smaller place (downtown, and walking distance to the bar scene). I need to unload some gear and would like to cut down to the 115+210. Alternatively, I’d consider the 215.

 

[DJ Bebop]

I have an 810e and a pair of PH410s, but I’m moving to a smaller place (downtown, and walking distance to the bar scene). I need to unload some gear and would like to cut down to the 115+210. Alternatively, I’d consider the 215.

I have no experience with the new Subway cabs in a rock format. I'm sure someone will come along that uses that very setup in that situation

 

[Wicked G]

How does the TT-800 perform as a hard rock/metal bass amp? How hard does it hit? How does it sit next to something like a Rectifier or 5150?

I think it works very well in a hard rock/heavy metal band. I've used mine next to a 6505+ and a Marshall JCM800 with no problem. However IMHO it does not hit hard. It's damping factor is set somewhere between medium to low so it is more of a bloomy amp than a hard hitting one. It's a pretty cool head, but if you want something more hard hitting, you may want to look at one of the other Subway heads.

 

[Al Kraft]

I think it works very well in a hard rock/heavy metal band. I've used mine next to a 6505+ and a Marshall JCM800 with no problem. However IMHO it does not hit hard. It's damping factor is set somewhere between medium to low so it is more of a bloomy amp than a hard hitting one. It's a pretty cool head, but if you want something more hard hitting, you may want to look at one of the other Subway heads.

Great insight and well described! I would think the 800+ might be the better choice to get that faster, tighter, harder-hitting type of feel. If a tad more tube feel is important, the WD on high damping could also be a possibility.

 

[spencejm]

So, to expand on this metal thing, I like to play some of everything and I think the TT will wind up being perfect for me. But…there are times when I want to punch people in the chest and it sounds like the 800+ would be best for that. If I’m understand everything I’ve read, I could get the TT and then get a Subway Plus preamp and basically have it all. Is that correct?

Joe

 

[Al Kraft]

So, to expand on this metal thing, I like to play some of everything and I think the TT will wind up being perfect for me. But…there are times when I want to punch people in the chest and it sounds like the 800+ would be best for that. If I’m understand everything I’ve read, I could get the TT and then get a Subway Plus preamp and basically have it all. Is that correct?

Joe

I think the technically correct answer there is "sort of". The TT 's power amp will still be operating in that low to medium damping factor range. IMO this is a large part of the difference people say they notice in terms of "feel or give to the notes" between playing a tube amp and a solid state amp. IMO you might want to just try the SW channel on the TT and see if it can work for you.

Despite playing through the lower damping factor power section as well, the SW channel preamp does have a decent punch and clean focus to the notes IMO. I think there are likely some metal players that appreciate the extra harmonic depth/dimensionality of amps like the TT (both channels) and are able to achieve their tone goals and the punch they need. Technique can help some as well and the TT has a lot of tone shaping ability that can also get tighter sounding edges on the notes. FWIW, cab choice is also a factor IME.

 

[_Some Dude]

For reference, I typically approach this from a bit more of a heavy sound and not a super articulate sound. I’m not so much after a Carbine type response as I am after a “massive” sound.

I’m currently coming at this from the point of view of a WD-800. I used to have a D800, which to me sounds fat with an extra helping of fat, but shifted to the WD800 upon release for its aggression, midrange, and more tube like feel.

I run the EQ on the WD800 fairly neutral and I use the parametric to dial in the tone of the the fret clank and a tiny bump to the low end. Gain is set so that it breaks up and compresses the attack but is relatively clean on the sustain. I run it on low damping and keep the HPF somewhere between very low and off in order to encourage a little extra looseness.

I also have a Strategy that I really dig. What I like about that amp is the sag. It’s like playing a sledgehammer… it takes a moment from initiating the swing to the hammer hit. The separation between attack and bloom make each note sound bigger.

I’m mostly interested in the TT800 because of the references to the 400. I’m not looking for a gained up OD, but I would like a bit of breakup and compression on the attack. The Strategy and PH410s are up for sale because I’m moving to a much smaller place, and I’m currently content with the size and sound of the WD800/210/115. The sale of those amps/cabs will be putting some money in my pocket, and while the TT800 is more of a curiosity at this point some of my favourite bassists use the 400.

 

[Jim C]

Interesting conversation on the heavy metal side of things.
I'm curious though. Do you guys find an SVT head (with say a 2x15 or 4x10) has the slam, punch, etc. that you are looking for (presumably in a lighter weight / smaller package)?
I agree with Al that the "sag, warm, note bloom" can get much closer with variable damping.
I'm surprised to hear that some don't prefer the Carbine "hit my in the face" approach for metal though. I have played very little of this genre so a learning experience for me based on what has been said by @_Some Dude ,@spencejm , and @Wicked G .

 

[s_wood]

For those of you thinking about the TT-800 for metal, I don’t really know what tone you are searching for, but as someone who has owned an M-9, a D800+ a Wd-800 and a TT-800 I can tell you two things for sure. First, none of the 800 series amps sound much like the M-9, which had a slam and aggressiveness all its own. Second, the WD-800 sounds noticeably different than either the D-800+ and the Subway channel of the TT-800. So much so that I still own a WD-800 and TT-800 and love them both, depending upon the gig. You’ve really got to hear them: most people will prefer one or the other.

 

[sunbeast]

Interesting conversation on the heavy metal side of things.
I'm curious though. Do you guys find an SVT head (with say a 2x15 or 4x10) has the slam, punch, etc. that you are looking for (presumably in a lighter weight / smaller package)?
I agree with Al that the "sag, warm, note bloom" can get much closer with variable damping.
I'm surprised to hear that some don't prefer the Carbine "hit my in the face" approach for metal though. I have played very little of this genre so a learning experience for me based on what has been said by @_Some Dude ,@spencejm , and @Wicked G .

“Metal” is a wide-reaching term these days, with the spectrum of tones being all over the place. I’ve been in a number of bands that IMO fit under the metal umbrella over the last 20 years and have almost always used tube heads to get the tones I want. I tried to use a Carbine for a bit to mix things up after a long stint with my Mesa 400+ and ultimately found myself come mostly full-circle (currently using a Prodigy and have a TT800 to try once I can finally gig again, though my recent projects are not really what a I would consider metal). To me what the Carbine gained in immediacy it lacked in that dynamic feel that tubes bring to the table- it was just a hammer all the time. That said, most of these amps can get plenty punchy through the right cabinets (I would argue a consideration of at least equal importance to the amp used).

 

[spencejm]

Sounds like when the day comes, I'll be taking a road trip to try amps. It's a lot of money to spend to not get the right one! Worst case, it's 7 hours to Sweet Water. Just have to make sure they've got it in stock!!

Joe

 

[Doufuss]

Sounds like when the day comes, I'll be taking a road trip to try amps. It's a lot of money to spend to not get the right one! Worst case, it's 7 hours to Sweet Water. Just have to make sure they've got it in stock!!

Joe

With the TT800, you get TWO amps. My kid uses his for his classic/alternative rock band in this fashion; Boogie channel gets you a real punchy bass tone perfect for classic rock and the subway channel he uses (at times) in conjunction with a big muff for grindy alt rock and punk stuff.

One amp to rule the universe!

 

[_Some Dude]

Interesting conversation on the heavy metal side of things.
I'm curious though. Do you guys find an SVT head (with say a 2x15 or 4x10) has the slam, punch, etc. that you are looking for (presumably in a lighter weight / smaller package)?
I agree with Al that the "sag, warm, note bloom" can get much closer with variable damping.
I'm surprised to hear that some don't prefer the Carbine "hit my in the face" approach for metal though. I have played very little of this genre so a learning experience for me based on what has been said by @_Some Dude ,@spencejm , and @Wicked G .

What I typically go for (can’t speak for others) is a tone where the top end slices through the guitars, the midrange is relaxed enough to stay out of the way of the guitars, and the bottom end is full without being bloated.

What I like about sag on bass is that I can drop the attack right on the beat and the note will blossom behind the beat. I think things sound bigger that way as always being on top of the beat (carbine) sounds a little flat. Sag might sound counter-productive, but if I need to I can just attack, attack, attack and never let the amp unload, but then when I do let the amp unload the note’s sustain hits like a sledgehammer.

My preferred tone wouldn’t be appropriate for something with fast stop/starts like djent or super technical like some death metal.


As for the SVT, I have one and love it, but I’ve only used it for 70s/90s hard rock as that’s what my last band was. It doesn’t have the depth or sledgehammer response of a Mesa PH cab, but the sealed enclosure helps keep the low end from running away. I wouldn’t hesitate to use one for metal (see: Metallica), but I have no experience with how it actually sits in the mix in that context.