metronome technique

[parttime]

hey all,

so the title says what i'm seeking; some tips on how to play with a metronome. i suck at it.

i have never played with one in the 20 years i've played music. and it shows. i know, i know, it's horrible that i never learned how before now. but now that i am trying to write my own completed songs, i am having a fair bit of trouble keeping time when i have to create everything on my own.

i have been writing these tunes on the bass, so that is usually the first track i lay down as a scratch. next i usually try to get down a drum track (on keys). 9 times out of 10 this is where the songs die because i notice how bad my timing is when i try to drum along over the bass track. so recently i tried playing with a click track just to keep things somewhat in order...and thusly i have reached my question. are there some tips for playing with a click or metronome, and maybe some of you could advise me on my recording order that might help me??

i am not a good enough mixer to mess with timings after i record to clean up any trouble spots, i would just rather redo the whole track and improve my timing. thanks for any advice!!

 

[Papageno]

Identifying what needs to be improved in one's playing is the most important step towards progress. Now, you just have to to practice (a lot) with a metronome, to nail down your timing.

There is a nice metronome app (Time Trainer), available both on android and apple, that you can program to skip a certain percentage of beats or bars, which helps avoiding that the metronome becomes a crutch you rely on exclusively.

 

[lfmn16]

Seriously, what is there to know? You turn on the metronome and play in time with it. If you're not sure what the problem is, record yourself playing to the metronome and listen back. It will identify where you are dragging or rushing if you can't hear it in real time. Practice until you get it right. There are no tricks, secrets, or short cuts.

 

[Papageno]

Seriously, what is there to know? You turn on the metronome and play in time with it. If you're not sure what the problem is, record yourself playing to the metronome and listen back. It will identify where you are dragging or rushing if you can't hear it in real time. Practice until you get it right. There are no tricks, secrets, or short cuts.

Actually, there are plenty of ways of using a metronome to solidify one's sense of time, and playing along with metronome clicking on all 4 beats is not the most useful way to practice with a metronome, although that is a good starting point.

Once one is able to play solidly in time with the metronome clicking on all 4 beats (as checked by listening to recordings, as said in the above post), one can move to the following successive steps:
- metronome on beats 1 and 3
- metronome on beats 2 and 4
- metronome on beat 1 only
- metronome on beat 2 only
- metronome on beat 3 only
- metronome on beat 4 only
- play in 4/4 along to a metronome cliking on beat 1 of a 3/4 bar (so that the click progressively shifts from bar to bar)
- metronome on off-beats (the "ands" in "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and")
- metronome on the "and" of 1 only
- etc...
One can also use the metronome app that drops a certain percentage of beats and bars at random to test the solidity of one's time.

This can be supplemented by playing along to a good drum-loop app such as Drumgenius.

 

[AFRO]

Seriously, what is there to know? You turn on the metronome and play in time with it. If you're not sure what the problem is, record yourself playing to the metronome and listen back. It will identify where you are dragging or rushing if you can't hear it in real time. Practice until you get it right. There are no tricks, secrets, or short cuts.

Im in this camp too.

Start painfully slow like 50-60 BPM.
the click should essentially *disapear* and your notes should be the prevailing sound(s) when you are doing it right.

start with whole notes and go down the line ~ half notes ~ quarter notes ~ eitght notes and build up to 16ths..

but like lfmn16 said no magic potion, have to put the shed time in.

you can start to spice it up with a drum machine or beat maker so it sounds more musical and less like training..

but honestly just put the work in and you will reap what you sow. I am kinda shocked you waited this long (to even need to) but its not too late to get grinding.

Good Luck and Bass (or hell just music) on friend.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Recording is brutal as it exposes all of your faults. Starting with bass is probably the hardest way to record IME.

I’d suggest using a very simple drum machine guide track instead of click & see if you ‘lock in’ better with that for now. It’ll help keep your drumming in time too. (Obviously you can delete/mute it later on).

Otherwise get a friend with good timing & studio experience to help you get started.

 

[parttime]

hey peeps, thanks for the thoughts. yeah, i know that really the answer is always "practice". i haven't ever been very disciplined in practice and i guess i need to focus on this now. is anyone else a solo recorder doing mutliple instruments? what order do you usually lay down your tracks? like, my timing is only rushing a bit when i go into a bridge or chorus, but in actuality i am trying to increase the tempo a little there. so with just bass and click, it's super wierd and frustrating. but i can't play the song in my head and just do it on drums first to get a rythm (if that makes sense). all of my recent song are "composed" on the bass, so that is what i have been doing first. does anyone know what the typical workflow is for solo producers?

and yes, i will practice using some of the suggestions here...thank you all again!

 

[BassChuck]

Anytime I've had to deal with a player that couldn't keep with a click track or live drummer, the problem boils down to the player not knowing the instrument, or being able to read a chart accurately.
You gotta know your instrument to play in time. You take the best musician in the world, put them on a axe they don't know, and they won't be able to play a major scale in time with a click track.

 

[brianrost]

is anyone else a solo recorder doing mutliple instruments? what order do you usually lay down your tracks?

I usually start with some kind of drum track. Just a boom-bap at the right tempo is good enough, a final drum part can be done later. Like most players, playing along to a drum track is easier for me than playing to a metronome click.

Trying to drum to a pre-recorded bass track is above my pay grade

How are you recording? I've been using MIDI and sequencers with keyboards for decades. I either finger drum a part or I can write a part into the sequencer (this is called step sequencing). Sometimes I use pre-recorded drum loops. I use sequencers because I can quantize the MIDI to make the timing more solid as well as fix playing mistakes without having to re-record.

Nowadays, standalone recorders like those from Roland/Boss, Tascam and Zoom no longer have MIDI, although some still have onboard drum machines. Except for Audacity, pretty much any software recorder available nowadays has MIDI.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Seriously, what is there to know? You turn on the metronome and play in time with it. If you're not sure what the problem is, record yourself playing to the metronome and listen back. It will identify where you are dragging or rushing if you can't hear it in real time. Practice until you get it right. There are no tricks, secrets, or short cuts.

You'd think so, but there are always ways to approach information, other than the most extremely obvious ways. Being dismissive isn't usually all that helpful.

Unless, in fact you do actually know every aspect of everything.

 

[lfmn16]

You'd think so, but there are always ways to approach information, other than the most extremely obvious ways. Being dismissive isn't usually all that helpful.

Unless, in fact you do actually know every aspect of everything.

Reading things that aren’t there isn’t helpful either. I never said I knew everything about anything.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Reading things that aren’t there isn’t helpful either. I never said I knew everything about anything.

Didn't have to. It's all in the delivery. But I've been around long enough to know that's your style.

 

[lfmn16]

Didn't have to. It's all in the delivery. But I've been around long enough to know that's your style.

Try as I might, I can’t seem to care any less what you think.

I was able to find room for you on my ignore list though!

 

[Spin Doctor]

Try as I might, I can’t seem to care any less what you think.

I was able to find room for you on my ignore list though!

Aww... Lol

 

[parttime]

now now gentlemen! let's keep it freindly, ay? an quite frankly @lfnm16 is right and is probly what i really need to hear and remind myself of. however, yeah, it still stands there is a bunch i don't know about timing and musical theory (and recording).

Trying to drum to a pre-recorded bass track is above my pay grade

How are you recording? I've been using MIDI and sequencers with keyboards for decades. I either finger drum a part or I can write a part into the sequencer (this is called step sequencing). Sometimes I use pre-recorded drum loops. I use sequencers because I can quantize the MIDI to make the timing more solid as well as fix playing mistakes without having to re-record.

ha, yeah, keyboard drumming to a track is above mine as well, but i'm eyeing a promotion!! and trying to get better at it.

my recording process is pretty straightforward. in summary, di all instruments. start with the bass first and just singing along with just a room mic so i know where to come in and stuff. then record vocals (if it has any), then guitar, then i sit down at the keyboard. since i'm learning how to finger drum and trying to get better at keyboards, i've been spending a ton of time just playing the song and practicing over them. also just di the keyboard thru my interface and using pro tools first. when i first started i tried doing the drum track immediately after the first bass track, but i could never get anywhere with any recordings cause then i would spend all day trying to work out drumming patterns and being frustrated at the subtle timing changes that i didn't realize i was doing. so i changed my workflow a bit just to get a little more productive. playing the first bass track with a click is where i really start getting bogged down. it's sort of taking the fun out of it a bit?? i should try the boom-bah thing you mentioned....

but now i'm waiting on new pickups for the guitar, so that is currently sitting with no electronics and i have some time to think about my process

thanks for your inputs!!

 

[Lagado]

You'd think so, but there are always ways to approach information, other than the most extremely obvious ways. Being dismissive isn't usually all that helpful.

Unless, in fact you do actually know every aspect of everything.

Good stuff. I picked up a useful tip from Wooten on one of his early tuition videos way back regarding working with a metronome. It's pretty much geared to develop a good internal sense of time without a constant reference.

 

[Lagado]

Seriously, what is there to know?

A lot more than you bothered to find out. Did you stick it on the ignore list with everything else?

 

[Les Fret]

ask Jeff Berlin...

 

[OptimalOptimus]

Reading music makes using a metronome quite easy. It puts everything in perspective.

if you can’t play with a metronome you can’t play at all in my book.

 

[parttime]

Reading music makes using a metronome quite easy. It puts everything in perspective.

if you can’t play with a metronome you can’t play at all in my book.

well i wont say that im too old to learn new tricks, but sheet music seems a bit out of my grasp right now. i have been focusing on theory a lot more in the last year, and feel like i am finally taking music a little seriously after 20 plus years. im not sure i would agree that you cant play at all tho! for sure in certain contexts without perfect timing it wont work. im thinking chamber orchestra. but when i play with other people, yes, i may bump a bit here or there but i feel like i dont notice it, or that its just part of the live playing experience. for sure soloing at home with o ly a bass is another one of those times that playing with a metronome seems imperative. and yeah, i do feel like i cant play at all a lot lately