metronome technique

[OptimalOptimus]

well i wont say that im too old to learn new tricks, but sheet music seems a bit out of my grasp right now. i have been focusing on theory a lot more in the last year, and feel like i am finally taking music a little seriously after 20 plus years. im not sure i would agree that you cant play at all tho! for sure in certain contexts without perfect timing it wont work. im thinking chamber orchestra. but when i play with other people, yes, i may bump a bit here or there but i feel like i dont notice it, or that its just part of the live playing experience. for sure soloing at home with o ly a bass is another one of those times that playing with a metronome seems imperative. and yeah, i do feel like i cant play at all a lot lately

then at least you can put the metronome at maybe 60 bpm. This pulse will be you quarter note. So the note should land directly on the clic each time.

then you can try 8th note... so 2 notes for each clic ... one that land on the clic and one that will be in the space between.

as you guessed it 16th note are for 4 notes for each clic, one note will land on the clic and 3 will be in the space between.

of course all of that you need to play each note evenly, letting each last the same amount of time... like with the 16th note don’t land the first one on the clic and letting it last longer and then rush 3 notes before the next clic.

this is why reading music and so having a teacher for that part help a lot. You will be a lot more solid as a player with playing with other. You will be able to read music and on a recording it is impossible to hide your mistakes so ... this is where you really show how solid and how you can really play.

 

[COYS]

Reading music makes using a metronome quite easy. It puts everything in perspective.

if you can’t play with a metronome you can’t play at all in my book.

Bringing back memories of my orchestra director, that was his favorite saying. If you can't play to a metronome, you can't play. If you can't play it in time, you can't play it.

 

[retslock]

hey all,

so the title says what i'm seeking; some tips on how to play with a metronome. i suck at it.

i have never played with one in the 20 years i've played music. and it shows. i know, i know, it's horrible that i never learned how before now. but now that i am trying to write my own completed songs, i am having a fair bit of trouble keeping time when i have to create everything on my own.

i have been writing these tunes on the bass, so that is usually the first track i lay down as a scratch. next i usually try to get down a drum track (on keys). 9 times out of 10 this is where the songs die because i notice how bad my timing is when i try to drum along over the bass track. so recently i tried playing with a click track just to keep things somewhat in order...and thusly i have reached my question. are there some tips for playing with a click or metronome, and maybe some of you could advise me on my recording order that might help me??

i am not a good enough mixer to mess with timings after i record to clean up any trouble spots, i would just rather redo the whole track and improve my timing. thanks for any advice!!

I prefer to practice with a drum app or loop. It’s not quite so sterile and a bit more fun.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I prefer to practice with a drum app or loop. It’s not quite so sterile and a bit more fun.

Drum loops are ok, but there is so much going on with them, that you have a lot of cues to help you keep time. The point of this isn't to have you keep your "fun factor" in place all the time. It's to create a good internal time within yourself. Sometimes you need to do some ish that looses a little fun for a greater benefit. But that's just my personal opinion.

I do know that a bass player with weak time is essentially worthless.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Bringing back memories of my orchestra director, that was his favorite saying. If you can't play to a metronome, you can't play. If you can't play it in time, you can't play it.

I absolutely agree with this.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Trying to drum to a pre-recorded bass track is above my pay grade

LOL... same here . I would never attempt that.

I always go drums first, and more often than not, bass second.

As for practicing to a click, if its really a problem I'd suggest practicing to simple beats. Doing that regularly should start getting your inner clock in gear, and then hopefully you'll be able to easily transition to a click. There are LOTS of metronome exercises you can Google, but I think they'd be useless if you struggle just playing to click without getting into any fancy exercises.

 

[parttime]

LOL... same here . I would never attempt that.

I always go drums first, and more often than not, bass second.

thanks for the feedback eveyone! pretty much i know i am just trying to learn too much at once. i have been focusing on the click tracks and i *think* i am starting to see some improvement.

@Joe Nerve what do you do if you write the song on bass? how do you record drums, just by playing the song in your head and then drumming along with it??

 

[retslock]

Drum loops are ok, but there is so much going on with them, that you have a lot of cues to help you keep time. The point of this isn't to have you keep your "fun factor" in place all the time. It's to create a good internal time within yourself. Sometimes you need to do some ish that looses a little fun for a greater benefit. But that's just my personal opinion.

I do know that a bass player with weak time is essentially worthless.

thanks for the feedback eveyone! pretty much i know i am just trying to learn too much at once. i have been focusing on the click tracks and i *think* i am starting to see some improvement.

@Joe Nerve what do you do if you write the song on bass? how do you record drums, just by playing the song in your head and then drumming along with it??

In that setting I would record drum loop and bass at the same time. Seperate tracks of course.

 

[BitMoBass]

I feel your pain . . . . a few things to try.

Set your click so it is unaccented; the same sound on all beats, and for starters use a simple side stick sound if you can

When recording print the click; Ive never been a fan of setting the layout to bars and beats so (for me anyway) it's nice to have a visual reference when editing and have my work space in minutes and seconds. Find what works for you.

When practicing (and recording) you want that click LOUD. I've found that many inexperienced players have the click way too soft and when they hit the chorus its often off to the races.

In terms of the actual recording process you might find it easier to start with gtr and vox. If you have an acoustic gtr, try that, either DI or mic, and then replace that scratch ac guitar with its associated vocal bleed with "clean" tracks. This initial scratch rhythm gtr/vox track could be a lot more satisfying to overdub to.

When playing with a click, feel it like you're playing with a solid rhythm player; your goal is to groove with it. And if you have a slow tempo song, try doubling the click. The subdivisions will keep you honest.

Also, keep your signal path as simple as possible and watch your gain structure.

It's been stated before, recording brings out and highlights your flaws. Try not to get too discouraged and besides hearing what dznt work, don't neglect the cool groovy ideas. Recording yourself is an art and the more you do it, the better you'll become, both as a musician and a studio rat.

....... and of course ..... Too Loud???? How can it be too loud? All the red lights ain't on.

 

[parttime]

I feel your pain . . . . a few

It's been stated before, recording brings out and highlights your flaws. Try not to get too discouraged and besides hearing what dznt work, don't neglect the cool groovy ideas. Recording yourself is an art and the more you do it, the better you'll become, both as a musician and a studio rat.

....... and of course ..... Too Loud???? How can it be too loud? All the red lights ain't on.

hey @BitMoBass , thanks for the suggestions! its good to hear simple things to try. for the click i have been trying it different ways, both as a simple click and with the bars. perhaps i just need more practice, but i am realizing that at some parts of songs ive worked out do strange time changes. so its helpful to the accented beats, but that goes out the window as soon as i get to the bridge or chorus, then the timing changes. i like and wrote the songs this way, so im not too keen to try and rework the timing of some major parts of songs, but i didnt really realize i was doing this. i just cant beleive that there isnt a responsive ai drummer program that will play along with you and find the beat and rythm. certainly, such a thing has to exist, right?

anyway, the simple beat has been more useful, but what you said about locking into the groove is the thing ive been trying to do the most, and that i find easier with timed beats. i find focusing on the groove has been a great outcome of this metronome practice. i know that is the basis of bass playing, but it seems i can so easily lose sight of that when im playing, and i worry about sound, and if i need to roll something off a bit, whatever. im not feeling the groove. and i havent been recording as much becuase i feel im in a growth phase and im more looking to improve than record. oh well, maybe a couple new songs will come out of all of this.

also been thinking about an acoustic guitar just because of what you mentioned. i dont need to buy more gear tho, i need to focus on getting better with what i have! thanks for the thoughts...

 

[BitMoBass]

Parttime .... you have a terrific attitude.

One thought.... if a song changes tempo try recording each section separately and then join them together in post.

Also, if you have the tune mapped out and you set up bars and beats you can have the program play a click and the tempo will change at the appropriate points that you have designated.

I mainly engineer and produce other people's material which usually sticks to one tempo.

It seems like you are trying a lot of things and practicing, so I guess the main thing I can say is make sure that click is loud enough for you to hear during all sections of the song and try using an acoustic gtr (it can be a super inexpensive one as long as it plays in tune, has strings that are not dead and has a decent set up) with your vocal as your initial scratch. Good luck.

 

[Papageno]

Actually, there are plenty of ways of using a metronome to solidify one's sense of time, and playing along with metronome clicking on all 4 beats is not the most useful way to practice with a metronome, although that is a good starting point.

Once one is able to play solidly in time with the metronome clicking on all 4 beats (as checked by listening to recordings, as said in the above post), one can move to the following successive steps:
- metronome on beats 1 and 3
- metronome on beats 2 and 4
- metronome on beat 1 only
- metronome on beat 2 only
- metronome on beat 3 only
- metronome on beat 4 only
- play in 4/4 along to a metronome cliking on beat 1 of a 3/4 bar (so that the click progressively shifts from bar to bar)
- metronome on off-beats (the "ands" in "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and")
- metronome on the "and" of 1 only
- etc...
One can also use the metronome app that drops a certain percentage of beats and bars at random to test the solidity of one's time.

This can be supplemented by playing along to a good drum-loop app such as Drumgenius.

Here is nice tutorial demonstrating the use of metronome I was discussing in the above post. It starts easy and then goes upwards. The last exercise is a real challenge. I just worked on it. Could not nail it first, and had to make several tries before getting it right.

 

[Killing Floor]

I use RDM app for beat stuff but I also use the free Fender Tune app because it goes down to 10 bpm which is uncommon. I will play to very slow tempo basic notes and record and playback. It’s nerdy but it helps.

If you’re recording and lay bass guitar first a programmed best will never sync with that. Lay drums first?

 

[WrapRough]

Interesting thread. I agree with Spin Doctor, there are definitely ways you can get the best out of a metronome, and ways that it will end up becoming a crutch. So it's not a silly question to ask at all IMO. I personally use the Soundcorset one on the Android app store. You can do all sorts with it. Mostly I try to set it to a slow tempo so there is a lot of space. I also personally find that tapping my foot along to the metronome helps me keep better time than no foot tapping

You can also practice this away from the bass, just tapping fingers, so something you can practice on the tube or whatever

 

[jallenbass]

Rich Brown has a nice series on metronome exercises that I'm enjoying.

 

[Papageno]

Time Trainer app, by Justin guitar, is a really interesting metronome, which you can configure to randomly drop a certain percentage of beats or bars, leaving you in charge of the time, and assessing how much you succeed (or suck!) at it, when it comes back in. That avoids using the nome as a crutch.

 

[WrapRough]

Rich Brown has a nice series on metronome exercises that I'm enjoying.

Thanks for sharing this man. This series is absolute gold, and Rich seems like a lovely guy and great teacher.

Good stuff!