Mic v. DI

[JimmyM]

Lot's of threads on this.

If you use your amp to significantly color your tone (i.e., tube overdrive, driver grind from old sealed multi 10 cabs, etc.), mic'ing a cab makes sense.

If, on the other hand, you use a more clean, pure tone, it makes very little sense, and a good, transparent DI is much easier for sound professionals to deal with.

Only if they don't know which end of the mic to point at the cab. Nothing any harder about micing a bass cab than running a DI. The hardest part is you have to have a stand for the mic. But a decent soundman should be able to get a good mic sound every bit as quickly and easily as a DI. I don't even bother with a DI anymore.

 

[JimmyM]

Ungodly Watts = bad back
Mic = problematic bass response (in my experience)
DI = best of all worlds.

Guitar is another thing - gotta have a mic, no doubt.

But bass? Same with keys - the idea is to not let your amp color your sound, right?

Don't know about you, but I'm not dragging a B-15 or SVT to my gigs because I don't want the amp to color my sound. And this "uncolored DI" stuff? If that were the case, how come DI's sound so different?

 

[Joe.shaffer]

Don't know about you, but I'm not dragging a B-15 or SVT to my gigs because I don't want the amp to color my sound. And this "uncolored DI" stuff? If that were the case, how come DI's sound so different?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Mystic Michael]

Both. Where's the option for both?

MM

 

[KJung]

Don't know about you, but I'm not dragging a B-15 or SVT to my gigs because I don't want the amp to color my sound. And this "uncolored DI" stuff? If that were the case, how come DI's sound so different?

And many of us wouldn't be caught dead playing out of that stuff just for that reason.

And... DI's that are designed to sound transparent (JDI, Countryman, etc.) do sound pretty much the same

There's nothing wrong with your approach (even though I hate it). There's also nothing wrong with my approach (even though you hate it).

If you like your amp's 'coloration', but all means.. mic it up!

 

[Joe.shaffer]

Both. Where's the option for both?

MM

I didn't put it in because I wanted a one or the other poll. BUT I suppose I was unfair because apparently some people won't gig without both at their disposal?

 

[JimmyM]

And many of us wouldn't be caught dead playing out of that stuff just for that reason.

And... DI's that are designed to sound transparent (JDI, Countryman, etc.) do sound pretty much the same

There's nothing wrong with your approach (even though I hate it). There's also nothing wrong with my approach (even though you hate it).

If you like your amp's 'coloration', but all means.. mic it up!

True, there's nothing at all wrong with either approach...but mine is more manly

 

[Pbassred]

DI out of my bass pod. i do this because of double "dumbness"

My 2 cents:-
1/ If you are trying to play a covers set you really can't expect to sound like the record on every song. Its dumb to try. Similarly if you are playing an originals set why would you expect the audience to know the finer details of what you are trying to achieve?
2/ Its not actually dumb, but a cute facet of the human brain. Humans don't require complete input to understand the universe. The brain fills in the gaps. If you play a song, they "hear" the record. Provided you don't play bum notes, the general public goes home happy.

So why add a layer of feedback/reason for failure?

 

[sonic assassin]

Guitar is another thing - gotta have a mic, no doubt.

But bass? Same with keys - the idea is to not let your amp color your sound, right? A buddy of mine uses a bass rig I put together for him for his keyboards - and it sounds great. Interestingly, I've found that bass sounds pretty good through good keyboard amps, too.

ridiculous. bass needs the same treatment a guitar does.

and the amp IS the tone.

this holier than thou/tonal purity/hi-fi movement is really starting to piss me off..

 

[sonic assassin]

Only if they don't know which end of the mic to point at the cab. Nothing any harder about micing a bass cab than running a DI. The hardest part is you have to have a stand for the mic. But a decent soundman should be able to get a good mic sound every bit as quickly and easily as a DI. I don't even bother with a DI anymore.

i think ill start saying my DI is broken.. make them break out a mic and stand or just let me fill the room myself.

i hate how pretentious sound guys are about walking behind my amp to run a DI and pressing the "pre-EQ" button when ive left it to "post-EQ" for a reason. i know what im doing..

hes going to reduce my bass to a subsonic muddy rumble, and im going to try my best to combat that with a very well sculpted midrange. pricks. /rant

 

[Eminor3rd]

I always blend both. That should've been a choice.

+1

 

[JimmyM]

DI out of my bass pod. i do this because of double "dumbness"

My 2 cents:-
1/ If you are trying to play a covers set you really can't expect to sound like the record on every song. Its dumb to try. Similarly if you are playing an originals set why would you expect the audience to know the finer details of what you are trying to achieve?
2/ Its not actually dumb, but a cute facet of the human brain. Humans don't require complete input to understand the universe. The brain fills in the gaps. If you play a song, they "hear" the record. Provided you don't play bum notes, the general public goes home happy.

So why add a layer of feedback/reason for failure?

Because it neither adds a a layer of feedback nor a reason for failure. Unless of course, like I mentioned before, you point the wrong end of the mic at the speaker.

 

[wvbass]

DI post EQ.

Amen. My old soundman always requested it pre-, which I did for a while. Then, I quietly switched it to post one night without telling him. He told me my bass sounded really good that night. Always use post eq since then.

I like the sound of my amp & cabs better than the sound of a pre- direct line. But, last night, there were already 12 mics on stage. I condsider it mercy to not force the soundman to have yet another source of ambient noise. Once the band is going, the nuances of tone tend to get lost anyway.

Then there's the cable hell. 4 vocals, 2 guitars, 3 keyboards, 5-piece drum kit + bass rig. Add in the monitors and PA cables, and that's a lot to trip over. (I run my wireless just to cut down on stage cables, and spend a fair amount of time during setup trying to make sure the guitards don't run cables in the areas where we're going to be standing. Why are bass players the only ones that understand efficiency? I can load in or out in one trip, but then have to make 30 more trips to get everybody else's stage gear and pa out. Another topic, I guess.)

On a small stage where I'm standing on top of my amp, the last thing I want is a mic stand to dodge. Post eq gives me a little bit of what my tone is. Of course, since I ran my bass and amp eq flat last night, I'm not too sure pre- or post- mattered.

A mic would be great, but I usually don't think its practical, particularly on a smaller stage. Plus, while I agree it generally sounds "better," I don't think "better" always matters in the mix. This is why my band tone is a little different from my personal practice tone - my "better" sound doesn't quite work in the mix.

Oh, and when you don't play any better than I did last night, bass tone is the least of your problems.

 

[seanm]

DI. Less hassle, both in setup and with the sound guy

But I don't rely on the amp for my sound; more in the strings and bass.

 

[greenboy]

As a soundman, if someone wants to give me post-EQ DI and I have to fight conflicting EQ needs for their stage rig versus a very different voicing of a decent PA stack, I say don't whine if you sound less than stellar.

 

[seanm]

As a soundman, if someone wants to give me post-EQ DI and I have to fight conflicting EQ needs for their stage rig versus a very different voicing of a decent PA stack, I say don't whine if you sound less than stellar.

My iAMP has a flat button, which is usually engaged, so my pre-EQ is my post-EQ

However, on boomy stages I quite often cut the bass a *lot*, so I always send pre-EQ so I can engage the tone to quickly tame the bass. Who needs one of those TC Rebel heads? My iAMP has two presets

 

[JimmyM]

A mic would be great, but I usually don't think its practical, particularly on a smaller stage. Plus, while I agree it generally sounds "better," I don't think "better" always matters in the mix. This is why my band tone is a little different from my personal practice tone - my "better" sound doesn't quite work in the mix.

Oh, and when you don't play any better than I did last night, bass tone is the least of your problems.

Hey, can't hear it from your house, right? Everyone has a bad night now and then. Not a biggie.

Here's a cool little space saver for micing amps...we use them all the time:

http://www.performanceaudio.com/cgi/product_view.cgi?products_id=5469

I totally don't get why people think it's such a big ordeal to mic a bass cab. Everyone mics guitar cabs without it being thought of as an ordeal. What's the difference with bass? I do it all the time, and I get a great sound instantly, just like a DI. Gotta have a good sounding cab and a decent mic, but even a lowly 58 sounds great on a bass cab so what's the problem?

 

[The Golden Boy]

I guess I don't understand why anyone would expend the effort, thought and expense in choosing an amp and cabinet that suits what sound they're looking for- spend the time and effort in setting up the EQ and then completely bypass it.

 

[seanm]

I guess I don't understand why anyone would expend the effort, thought and expense in choosing an amp and cabinet that suits what sound they're looking for- spend the time and effort in setting up the EQ and then completely bypass it.

I can give you a couple of reasons.

One, I still play more gigs where I don't go through the PA than gigs where I do. For non-PA gigs I rely 100% on my amp sound. It has to sound good.

Two, a great clean PA sounds good to me. If the venue has done a good job with the PA, I can't hope to compete with that. I play P basses live. If a soundman does not know how to get a great sound from a P bass, they should not be doing sound.

 

[mbrain]

I've always been a di guy (mostly out of the back of my Eden), but some of the microphone guys have got me thinking--has anyone used a DI post amp (i.e., in parallel with the cabinet)?

I know the countryman (among others) will do this, and it would give you the sound of your head (but not the color added by the cabinet). I've had an opportunity to do this before, but it never occurred to me. Any real-life experience? Anyone?