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Mic v. DI

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Joe.shaffer, Mar 26, 2009.


  1. Mic'd cab

    57 vote(s)
    32.0%
  2. DI

    94 vote(s)
    52.8%
  3. Neither, just use an ungodly amount of watts.

    12 vote(s)
    6.7%
  4. Carrots...

    15 vote(s)
    8.4%
  1. davio

    davio

    Nov 2, 2006
    Boston, MA
    That is all that's important. Sound guys get paid to make the band sound good. Bass players get paid (hopefully) to play bass.

    If it was anything more than a cookie cutter band playing a cookie cutter gig...just about every time.

    Any time they ask me. More often than not, though, they are able to listen to the kind of music that's being played and make solid judgements on tone and balance accordingly.

    That's the life of a professional. You slave away at your craft sculpting what to your eyes/ears is the perfect product and accept/work with/don't rehire whatever comes out the other end.

    Are you really going to pull the "Well why does he get to do it?" card?
    *GLARING GENERALITY ALERT*
    Differences in typical bass amplification are FAR more subtle than that of guitars. You can argue that all you want but the bottom line remains that Gladys Groupie will notice if Mr. Guitar Holder is DI'ed and has nothing but his twangy, unsaturated clean tone going through FOH MUCH more than she'll notice if Heir Bass God is DI'ed or mic'ed. Period.

    The fact of the matter is that you're not going to sound the same through your rig as you do through FOH REGARDLESS of whether or not you're mic'ed or are using a post-EQ DI. The sound guy ultimately has control over what the audience hears and giving him something that's harder for him to work with or something he is uncomfortable with can do nothing but hurt the end result (read: what the audience hears). Add to that the fact that I've met some unprofessional sound douches who, if pissed off, will make the band sound like crap intentionally.

    At the end of the day, do what you can to work with professionals you can trust to do their jobs just as they trust you to do yours.
     
  2. 4-string

    4-string

    Jul 23, 2006
    Norway
    I have been thinking about getting a good mic to have with me, but most sound guys I come across want to go direct. Most of them are OK with my amp's DI, only a few insists on using an external one.

    Whatever they want, I can't do much about how it sounds FOH anyways. However, I insist on going post fx. Don't want to play Sledgehammer with no octave. :)
     
  3. pgk

    pgk

    Aug 19, 2007
    What I'm saying is there is no way for a sound guy to know what sound you want.

    horsedoody. sorry, and maybe (probably) my needs are simpler than yours, but i can explain what i want in 2 flippin' seconds; they ask, i point to the amp and say "i want That". which of course means a mic on the cab. nothing difficult about that at all, what's the big deal? and yep, i carry my own mic too in case they need one. and when i can finally afford it the perfect stage mic for me will be an EV re20; no proximity effect, very bass friendly, true to the source. i like to "take care of my end" as thoroughly as i can; bass/amp/cab/mic-di. past that it is out of my hands, and that's just the reality of the situation. a good foh person will make that work great and fit in the mix great. my foh feed is the best i'm able to give, for the sound i prefer. i'm easy though, in the end i'll go whatever they're comfortable with, be it mic or di. but i'll take a mic every time if it's an option.

    dude seriously, just start carrying your own microphone and make it easy on yourself. get a great bass cab mic and save yourself a whole lot of stress....

    over 'n out
     
  4. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    If you attempt to explain it as well as you quote from a post and then respond to it, it's no wonder that you seem frustrated. Because you have quoted me twice and then your response is practically a non-sequitor, not even about the same thing really. If your communication with another person is that poor, really there is no two-way communication going on. It's just you talking to yourself while trying to make someone else listen.

    And faith in the fellow human being. Seems like the deck is loaded against you - nobody listens, they pretend, but they practice subterfuge. Must be horrible.

    The more I hear, this compositie soundguy you've painted is probably doing the right thing. You seem much like the high-maintenance girlfriend, convinced it is all about you, comvinced that nobody really cares about you, that they are liars... you seem to project a lot of 'tude. A smart guy would show up with the right DI or mic in hand, maybe ask if the soundguy has heard the promo recording, and not be so paranoid. Because past a point it's up to someone else who has ears out in the audience area and not on stage, and you might be clueless anyway.

    Man, if anyone would deserve the "suck" knob, it's you. Fortunately there are usually other prima donnas in a band who are equally celf-centered and judgmental.

    Hey, there's could always be someone who shows up ten minutes before things are really gonna get busy and thinks to deliver a major speech on a highly subjective thing that words don't describe very well while you are trying to prep something. But did they get a recording to you when they could have? Did they have a decent mic? Did they play a little something when the time was right, when there were a few free moments before or during soundcheck - something that was really dialed in? There are plenty of ways to communicate but trying to knab major time at the WRONG TIME is not the way to communicate about what is often a minor priority in the grand scheme of things AT THAT MOMENT.

    Hate to say it, but the guys who often sound the best are the guys who have their rig together, their priorities straight, good organizational and conversational skills, and are often very low maintenance. Somehow it all comes together without much fuss, just USING THE EARS. See, the truth is, a lot of soundguys can hear - if you'd just let them. Far better than you can in your place on stage can they hear the full mix in the house.
     
  5. davio

    davio

    Nov 2, 2006
    Boston, MA
    Yeah, what he said.^^ :D
     
  6. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Depends on size of venue, and size of PA and bass rig. There are plenty of scenarios where one or both positions are making the mistake of wanting to control fully what is not possible to fully control. It can just get ugly.
     
  7. seanm

    seanm I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize!

    Feb 19, 2004
    Ottawa, Canada
    If you really want "your" sound, shouldn't you bring your own sound guy?
     
  8. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Easier said than done. If there's money in the budget, we do. If there's not, we use the person supplied. And yet I rarely have a problem getting what I want out of the bass. Why? Because I am an effective communicator who approaches the soundman as an equal and talks to him with respect. He knows that I am not out to screw him with a crappy sound that constantly changes, and he's hopefully not out to screw me. So if I have a special request, 9 times out of 10 I'm able to get it done. And for that one time I can't, I have a VT pedal that gets me what I want in any situation ;)
     
  9. And musicians choose their rig to sound like they wish to sound. I don't think it's too much to want to convey that sound to the audience as much as possible.

    Who decides what constitutes being a "cookie cutter" band?

    So all "rock" bass tone is the same?

    What if you're not a "professional?"

    Case in point- a few weeks ago I was doing guitar and bass tracks for a film soundtrack. IMO, the guitar tone was too bottom endy and mushy, the bass sound was too woofy. That's what the guy wanted, he loved the sound- I asked him if he wanted anything different- and that's what he wanted. I didn't have a vested interest in it. If'n that were my project I wouldn't have wanted that mushy, woofy mess on my recording. I would have redone it.

    So what is a "professional?" One that does as he thinks it should be done or the one that does it as it's asked to be done?


    If'n I feel like it...
    I'd guess that around 80% of "rock" guitar players use way more gain than they need. Around the same percentage have too much bottom in their EQ. What happens when you get too much bottom end and/or gain? Either it disappears in the mix, it turns to mush or it ends up being the proverbial "angry hornet nest." Since you know that, wouldn't it be easier to take Mr. Guitar Holder's signal and run it through a nice (for example) AC-30 patch before going into the amp to sweeten up that over-squashed excuse for a tone that he's got. It's more pleasing aurally, Mr. Guitar Holder hears the tone he wants, and it'll sit better in the mix and it still sounds "rock."

    Will Gladys Groupie be able to tell the difference between an AC-30 patch and an SLO? If so, will she care?

    By running a DI, the soundguy has complete control of the sound of the band- which to me is kind of wrong- the sound guy generally isn't a part of the band. Maybe that's cool for a cover band playing today's favorite hits at the local meet market. If it's a band presenting their own music... the sound guy should be attempting to bring the sound of the band to the audience.
    Generally speaking, the sound guy doesn't care how well you play, how well you sing, and has no vested interest in the band- only that his employer pays him. Whether it's the venue, a 3rd party company or the band...
     
  10. davio

    davio

    Nov 2, 2006
    Boston, MA
    Goldie, at this point you're not taking in anything that's said. I can not add anything more here that would be in any way constructive so I will see myself out. I'll leave you with this. Again.

     
  11. I get the **** ripped out of me for essentially saying the same thing-

    The sound my bass and my amp.

    What's being said is "give the sound guy your line signal and let the sound guy decide what is appropriate." You're completely reducing your amp to a stage monitor.
     
  12. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    No, you're saying you assume the soundman is a douchebag and no matter what you ask him for, you're not going to get it. And we're merely pointing out that if you treat the soundman like a douchebag, you won't get anywhere with him, and that's why the soundman screws you over.
     
  13. JeremyJJackson

    JeremyJJackson

    Mar 1, 2009
    i use a direct xlr out from my amp so i still keep my tone for the most part, sometimes i use a sansamp bass di though which sounds pretty killer as well. And yes always be nice to the sound guy even if he is a douche, he can make or break a show.
     
  14. pgk

    pgk

    Aug 19, 2007
    What's being said is "give the sound guy your line signal and let the sound guy decide what is appropriate." You're completely reducing your amp to a stage monitor.

    absolutely not

    by mic'ing up my rig my signal, the way I like to hear it, is the only signal Available to the soundman fer chrissakes. JUST LIKE THE GUITAR PLAYERS YOU ALWAYS WHINE ABOUT. foh then determines the appropriate level for the house, using the MIC'D signal i supply. i am not the foh guy, i am the bass player. so what is your problem??? actually please don't answer that; i think you're purposely trying to stir s$%^ up sir, be a troll or whatever, just so everyone can hear your pseudo-intellectual nonsense. frankly you're coming off here as nothing but a rank amatuer. hard to imagine the kind of band that would put up with your incessant crap. well heck look at me, i just took your bait i suppose....
     
  15. OK.


    OK.

    OK.

    OK.


    OK.
    OK.

    OK.

    By "OK" I mean "whatever."
     
  16. Where have I said that?

    What I've stated is that the soundman will most ALWAYS try to convince you to use a DI and bypass your amp.
     
  17. "troll"
    "rank amateur"
    "incessant crap"

    Did you read?

    I'm the one who wants my cab mic'd.

    There are others that want a pre EQ DI signal.

    I am not that person.

    There are others that believe that your EQ and your Cabinet will interfere with the ability of the soundman to make the bass sound like a bass in the FOH.

    FWIW- I never gratuitously whine about "guitar players" as a general group.
     
  18. davio

    davio

    Nov 2, 2006
    Boston, MA
    *sigh*

    This is what I get for forgetting to unsubscribe from the thread...

    What we're hearing from you is that the best option in all situations is to mic your cab. What we're trying to tell you is that it's a bad idea to give the sound man a signal he's not comfortable working with (be it a mic, DI box, pre- or post-EQ DI from the head, whatever else you can come up with) because if he feels he can't get something that will sound good to the audience, it won't sound good in FOH regardless of what it sounds like when it leaves your rig. If he's good at and comfortable with mic'ing your cab...awesome.

    I hope that in some way clarifies something somewhere somewhen.

    Unsubscribed. Go in peace, boyos.
     
  19. pgk

    pgk

    Aug 19, 2007
    troll
     
  20. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    OK, you didn't say "douchebag" but that was the intent. But that is SO not the experience I have. I will get that occasionally, but when I pull out my Heil PR 40 and Z Bar, they usually back off. Also, very few soundmen will complain when I ask for a mic on the road. Some do if it's a big show with limited channels, or if they're lazy, but more often than not, they list off their available mics and ask me which one I want to use.

    Of course, I'm not playing originals with 6 different bands using the same PA and demanding completely different everything, so I can see where a soundman might not want to go dig for a mic and stand in those circumstances. More often than not, we're the only band or the headlining band, so I guess I'm spoiled by the ability to boss soundmen around most of the time ;) And the network of soundmen I work with regularly who I don't have any power over love everything I do so they never question it. But the soundman on multi-band gigs has to make set changes quick or they lose precious alcohol income, so they may just not have enough time to make you 100% happy. So you should bring your own and plug the DI line into it. And really, the soundman should have a bass mic available as well as a DI, but there are other extenuating factors that go into them not being as willing to accomodate you.

    This is where having a winning personality has a LOT to do with how the soundman treats you. But just like everyone else who replied, I'm not feeling the warm fuzzies in anything you're saying, so why would we assume you're any different on a gig?
     

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