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Mic v. DI

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Joe.shaffer, Mar 26, 2009.


  1. Mic'd cab

    57 vote(s)
    32.0%
  2. DI

    94 vote(s)
    52.8%
  3. Neither, just use an ungodly amount of watts.

    12 vote(s)
    6.7%
  4. Carrots...

    15 vote(s)
    8.4%
  1. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    I've done it with a B-15 head and an H&K Red Box Classic. Best DI sound I ever had. Sounded very much like a REDDI. An all-tube design is the best candidate for it. Really doesn't make a difference in solid state or hybrid amps unless they have an output transformer. Maybe an Aggie DB 750 or a Warwick Hellborg would be a good candidate for it. Otherwise, post-preamp is about as good as it gets.
     
  2. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Because that EQ this supposed effort has centered around is for that cab that suits that sound - and NOT at all was it massaged for for the PA which almost certainly has a different tonal profile? Which Mr Bassplayer hasn't spent an iota of time EQIng for, or listening in an actual position that its output is intended for in the context of a band mix?

    Or are you talking about bypassing one's local EQ, and not particularly about using pre-EQ DI?
     
  3. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    That's where a concept called "knowing what you're doing" comes into play. I know what I'm doing and I consider it an insult if a soundman thinks I'm not to be trusted with being able to control what he gets from me. I have to work with a ton of different soundmen in the course of a year, and there are very few that I trust to get the sound I want in the house, so I don't allow them access to those freqs if I can help it. And if they insist on running me DI, my VT Bass pedal runs interference.

    OTOH, my bass tone no matter what I do is always mix-friendly. I don't go boosting 40 hz all the way up in a 410HLF, nor do I make big changes in the EQ during the gig. So the bass player has to be responsible if he/she insists on a post-EQ DI.
     
  4. dave_kts

    dave_kts

    Jan 17, 2008
    how about when sound dude tries to soundcheck me when i just get plugged in and letting my tubes warm up still on standby. soundguy runs to stage with his crap DI and plugs into my bass and exclaims he's getting nothing but noise. i try to tell him my master was down, on standby. he doesnt listen. I LIKE my amp to color my sound. that is why i have a 400+. Really pisses me off when i mute and tune with my rackmount and im running through the PA still.
    From now on, im bringing an attenuator for the morons that dont realize the tube monster puts out a 2 volt DI signal, as well as my own mic, never again to be DI'd from my jazz bass. too sterile, and i like compression.
     
  5. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    You mean, like understanding what the other person was saying? ; } ...I wasn't saying anything about mic vs DI whatsoever. I can deal with either and both. I like either and both. I was talking about pre-EQ DI versus post-EQ DI - where again, a lot of bass players think their EQ is some special formula that not only needs to feed their stage mix, but also feed FOH.

    So often wrong wrong wrong (not always but way often). But I usually just let them have their way, then do my best with the signal they've got coming to me - though I'm often countering their EQ habits just to not sound too boomy, or too shrill, or to get all registers of the bass sounding good (and even) and not strong in one area and weak in another... really just trying to make it sound like their rig, idealized in a mix.

    A lot of the guys who have the most 'tude actually know or understand the least, but hey, it's a competitive world out there - someone else does have it figured out and best of luck to all ; }
     
  6. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    I hear you Greenie. I think your approach is the best way to do it. For better or worse, the bassist may have reasons for wanting a sound, and it could alter the band's whole feel if you go radically changing it. I'm sure soundmen in the 60's and 70's argued with Chris Squire and Geddy Lee, and I know they argued with Entwistle. But some bassists just plain don't know what they're doing. How do you tell the difference? ;)
     
  7. greenboy

    greenboy

    Dec 18, 2000
    remote mountain cabin Montana
    greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
    Sometimes it's just better to let the vibes not get frayed so the performance isn't influenced by insisting or leaning on anyone much, and do what you can do to save them from swinging in the breeze on a rope of their own devise, yep, Jimmy : }
     
  8. This is usually a BAD idea, unless you really pretty much run your amp flat. The idea that the EQ settings that you use to make your small backline bass cab sound good to you will 'help' the much differently voiced front of house PA is usually wrong.
     
  9. What if you choose an amp and cab and EQ to mimic, as close as you can, a nice, big, clean front of house sound?:smug:
     
  10. :confused: If you read my first post, the idea that one approach is 'better than the other' is silly. There are two separate schools of thought here, and both are equally valid. If you are one, like me, who LOVES the sound of his/her bass plugged directly into a nice high end mixing console through studio monitors, then you are MUCH more likely to get that sound by using a high quality, pure DI (like a Radial JDI) right into the front of house.

    If, on the other hand, you love the warmth and tone and color that, for example, an old Ampeg rig provides, then of course, the best way to get that sound to the board is by using a mic.

    There's no 'right or wrong', but the idea of even asking 'which is best' is a bit silly, since both are totally legit and representative of different approaches to tone and tone goals.

    Of course, if you have a soundperson running the front of house who is clueless, neither approach will help you much in any case!

    IMO.
     
  11. rutabowa

    rutabowa

    Mar 20, 2009
    it sounds good, if it is an amp worth doing it for. i don't know why more places don't do it like this in case someone brings a nice head.
     
  12. IMO, this really only makes some sense if you have an all tube amp. The power sections on solid state or hybrid amps don't really add that much 'tone or color' (if any). So, taking the output from a solid state amp into that kind of padded input on a DI like the Avalon, JDI, Countryman, etc. would be about the same as taking a post EQ DI right from the head, in most cases (which is usually not a great idea either).
     
  13. rutabowa

    rutabowa

    Mar 20, 2009
    yes i would agree with that.
     
  14. Surly

    Surly

    Feb 2, 2007
    South Florida
    Carrot mics.
     
  15. VisualShock

    VisualShock

    Feb 19, 2008
    North Wales
    +1

    and that was pretty much end of the thread there.
    why isn't there an option for both?:confused:
     
  16. VisualShock

    VisualShock

    Feb 19, 2008
    North Wales
    I see that a lot... I like to refer to it as "All the gear, No Idea"
     
  17. Colonel_Claypoo

    Colonel_Claypoo Steve Harris nut

    Oct 24, 2007
    Germany
    i think, not too long ago, i read something about a combined approach. mics for the vital midrange coloration a cab provides and DI for the bass frequencies.

    what's up with that?
     
  18. My guess is, this is a description of the issues guys run across who love that classic Ampeg Fridge tone with the rig pushed a bit. It's very difficult to get that tone out of any DI, even a DI with a tube in it that is designed to growl a bit. However, as most know who have played out of that particular classic rig from time to time, it's more about punchy, snarly sealed multi 10 mids than deep bass. So, many go with a dual approach, getting most of the 'tone' from their classic rig, and then mixing the 'dry DI' signal in for some added low end in the front of house.

    However, if you like it clean and 'transparent', there would be no reason to do this (edit: IMO, there would be little reason to do this!), since the DI would transmit the entire range of your instrument to the board (bass, mids and treble).

    IMO and IME!
     
  19. allexcosta

    allexcosta

    Apr 7, 2004
    I like to use both in 2 separate channels when possible.
     
  20. Yup I like the sound of my bass and my amp . Those two things are what make my tone .
     

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