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Michael Vick pwned!
- Thread starter Dave Grossman
- Start date
I honestly think that many people relish seeing a millionaire athlete get knocked down to earth. What he has done is ugly, but it is not the crime against humanity that some of you would like to say it is. Frankly, the dog fighting bothers me more than dog killing. As Woodchuck mentioned, I know of folks shooting the old hound dog that can't run anymore, which is no different from killing horse with a broken leg, or killing a pitbull that can't fight. In all cases a human is killing an animal because it can no longer serve a human need (granted the horse would likely die any way.)
You do realize the sharing implication in that statement, right?
I share, but my cat won't.
Eh, in all fairness some hunters kill for sport, but most I know kill for food. If you don't eat it don't kill it.
I'm not gonna lie, I giggle at hunting-related accidents. It's a sport, right? With all sports come the danger of injury.So look at all the additional people we can now be thoroughly disgusted with and can wish bodily harm if not long incarceration.
"I shot WHO???"
Yup, most I know are like this. But...Eh, in all fairness some hunters kill for sport, but most I know kill for food. If you don't eat it don't kill it.
I know a man, an old friend of my Grandfather's, who hunts as much as humanly possible. He has the heads of so many animals in his den, you can't even see the walls anymore. Know what the kicker is? He hates venison. He hates boar meat. He hates the meat of most of the things he kills. The carcasses of those animals that go with the heads on the wall were either stuffed in the garbage or thrown out in the woods, totally wasted.
It's hunters like this man I despise.
Normally I'd agree, but I've seen this man's backyard... Or, more accurately, SMELLED his backyard...
Eh, in all fairness some hunters kill for sport, but most I know kill for food. If you don't eat it don't kill it.
Most that I know do the same... but most will also admit they like doing it and it sure as heck isn't because they're hungry.
I was watching a show on super RVs, the big expandable several hundred thousand dollar deals. There was one guy who'd spent his adult life travelling the globe killing things and bringing home trophies. For some unexplained reason he lost his taste for it and instead took up wild game photography.
I grew up in the country around hunters and didn't have a problem with the hunters who actually consumed what they killed. OTOH even from a very early age, while friends would shoot small birds with bb guns, it just never made sense to me to take a creature's life just for the rush. Still doesn't.
I have a big problem with what Vick did... but I also have problems with what others do so for me it makes zero sense to act like he's some sort of "special" kind of person with his behavior, worthy of my utmost outrage. There are far bigger problems in this world than what Vick did and the sorry and laughable thing is that most people don't even care about that. they're spending their time being "outraged" by Vick.
And where did our pal Joe get this information regarding prison sentences from? Did he cite those sources? A quick search finds, Invalid Link Removed the charges for child molestation, [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] and the charges for animal cruelty (in NY for example) are, "a class-E felony with up to 4 years in jail."
Everyone knows that Vick is getting out of jail in less than a year. He's a celebrity. Our legal system is far kinder to those with money than to those without.
I do not "relish seeing a millionaire athlete get[ing] knocked down to earth," as you say, but I take great offense to courts going easy on celebrities that commit crimes and do not pay the time.
What exactly are you trying to rationalize? That killing an animal, no matter what fashion, should be punishable in the court of law?
If that is the case, there is a massive difference between engaging in an illegal activity (dog fighting) and one that is legal (hunting). I personally would not engage in hunting an animal, but I do not think that it should be a punishable offense. I am sure tons of people can post relevant articles to the merits of hunting for both subsistence and sport, so I'd rather let them do it.
This thread makes me sad.
Several points: No one who knows anything about the law expects Vick to get out in less than a year because Federal law will not allow it unless he were somehow exonerated which would be pretty difficult since he pleaded guilty despite a millionaire legal team. The best he can hope for is about 19 months with good behavior.
If you don't relish in a big time athlete going down, good for you. I don't remember calling you by name when I said what I did. I do think that many who want to see "justice" want it just a little more when the convicted is someone like Vick.
As for the little boy who shot the bear, I know something about that part of Arkansas. It is very rural, and that bear, given its size, had probably lived there minding its own business for years. What good came out of shooting it? That area is full of farms, it is where a good portion of American rice is grown, and I wouldn't be surprised if the father of the kid doing the shooting doesn't have some farm land. It's not like they needed some bear ribs to fight off hunger.
I don't care how legal bear hunting is, and frankly I really have no problem with hunting in principle, I just find it hypocritical that we praise a child for needlessly killing an animal, while vitriolically condemning another the for needless
killing of animals.
Dogs love humans and trust us as their pack leaders. Dog fighters betray that bond and that trust at the deepest level, just like a child abuser.
Wild animals fear us just as they fear their other predators. They expect nothing more than what they sometimes get from us... an invitation to dinner.
Wild animals fear us just as they fear their other predators. They expect nothing more than what they sometimes get from us... an invitation to dinner.
I live in a state where hunting is probably the number 2 form of recreation, right behind fishing. Most of the hunters that I know, who hunt for 'sport', make use of the meat and skin from every animal that they kill.
I have never met anybody who hunts for 'sport' and doesn't consume the animals that they kill.
If I ever do, I agree, they would be a most sick individual.
Dave, it is rare that you and I agree on anything, but on this, I agree 100%.
Now, when you say permanently, are you thinking of capital punishment for some of them?
Dogs love humans and trust us as their pack leaders. Dog fighters betray that bond and that trust at the deepest level, just like a child abuser.
Wild animals fear us just as they fear their other predators. They expect nothing more than what they sometimes get from us... an invitation to dinner.
Yup, this is exactly how I see it: Dogs see us as "one of us" (i.e. the pack, specifically you, the human, are typically the "alpha" dog). They intrinsically TRUST us.
Subverting this trust and causing harm to the animal for the sole purpose of some sick, perverted, and twisted version of "entertainment" is abhorrent to any rational and civilized human being. If it's "cultural", then your culture SUCKS. I recommend getting a new one, post haste.
Vick has shown a consistent and blatant disregard for the law throughout his "career", and it finally caught up with him. He managed to skate through many scrapes prior to this one, so his behaviour is no surprise to anyone that was paying attention. He probably should have been at the very least suspended numerous times but was given a "pass" because he was MIKE VICK for gosh sake, and he's brining in a lotta dough, for both the Falcons and the NFL. It took a major felony to finally get everyone's attention.
Sadly, as I pointed out elsewhere, this simple fact - Mike Vick is an admitted felon! (and only because he was cornered by the facts, I'm sure he would have still been spewing lies and obfuscations right this moment if the pure facts had not painted him so perfectly into said corner) - seems to escape all too many NFL players and fans, as evidenced by the actions and clothing seen at the game Monday night. :scowl:
Also, Vick is a certifiable MORON, whether by choice, circumstance, or some other reason. Any idiot would have been able to add the 2 and 2 to end up with 4 when as part of his release until sentencing the judge made random drug testing a condition of the release. Uh..."I was under a lot of stress...uh...." ain't gonna cut it, hoss. You KNOW they're gonna hit you sometime, if you have even the slightest bit of basic logic and intelligence at your fingertips, you DON'T smoke the joint!
However, what this almost certainly points out is that he STILL believes that the "rules" (or more correctly the LAW) only applies to guys that don't have his physical skillz.For those that think his sentence is too much: Wrong. He committed a felony. He lied, both under oath and otherwise, repeatedly about the felony. He then broke the conditons of his pre-sentencing release. I'd say that under those circumstances, the judge was pretty lenient - sentencing guidelines allow up to a 5 year sentence, he won't serve half of that, even without any good behavior early release.
Comparing this to any other issue is a straw man argument, the issue is that he committed a felony, got caught, lied through his teeth, and got a pretty darn light slap on the wrist for it, when you look at it. The type of felony, and the fact that other felonies are worse, or that other perps get lighter sentences for greater wrongs just tells us to get off our collective arses and get those that we hire (by voting, you do that, right? No? Then please STFU about how the world ain't run right!) to write our laws to get it straight - not to sit and type on the internet about how "unfairly" Vick got treated.
Stupid should hurt, and it DID this one time. Hit him right where it would have at least a moderate affect on his brain, in his wallet. Let's see if Mikey can get out and learn to live in a world where he isn't "Michael Vick, superstar football player". I doubt he will do well in that world.
