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Mic'ing bass amp for live shows?

#61
SteveC said:
Maybe I missed it, but I have a question about mic'ing the cab. In other discussions, people talk about how your sound doesn't develop until it's many feet away from your cab because of the length of the soundwave, etc.

If this is the case - and it seems from a physics standpoint that it is - if you want the true sound of your cab, the mic would have to be many feet away, correct? So putting a mic an inch from your cab, and basically one driver, isn't really capturing the sound of your cab, right?
Click to expand...

Steve, see post #42.

I think the proper retort for anyone who claims that the sound is louder/more developed further away is "Put your ear right up to the cab all night long and then get back to me."
 
#63
Yep. I don't know where these arbitrary numbers come from but I suspect some of these guys saw that the wavelength of a certain frequency was whatever feet. But if sound actually worked like that, you'd have to dance to a new position each time the bass played a new note, because every note has a different wavelength.

low E: 27.4 feet
low B: 36.6 feet

That's got to be a big dance move to hear a cadence properly - and what about all those overtones? ; }
 
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#65
greenboy said:
Yep. I don't know where these arbitrary numbers come from but I suspect some of these guys saw that the wavelength of a certain frequency was whatever feet. But if sound actually worked like that, you'd have to dance to a new position each time the bass played a new note, because every note has a different wavelength.

low E: 27.4 feet
low B: 36.6 feet

That's got to be a big dance move to hear a cadence properly - and what about all those overtones? ; }
Click to expand...
Not only that, but headphones wouldn't put out any sound except for very high frequencies if that were the case. However, it's an often-repeated myth, sometimes by audio pros, so it has legs. I used to believe it myself until these guys set me straight.
 
#66
JimmyM said:
Not only that, but headphones wouldn't put out any sound except for very high frequencies if that were the case.
Click to expand...

From the originator of the headphone example, and in this very thread: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5273385&postcount=42

However, it's an often-repeated myth, sometimes by audio pros
Click to expand...

Those particular pros must be the most unobservant ever. I guess they have other redeeming qualities, but to them I would also suggest putting their ear next to the subwoofer all night long, and then report back after they recover.
 
#68
Passinwind said:
Yep, but if it's really important to you consider carrying your own mike for the purpose. As a sound man, I never refuse anyone who's serious enough to do that, regardless of instrument.;)
Click to expand...

I just bought a mic stand and intended using my sm57. I am sick of lugging my 8x10 around to only get used as "a moniter." I really hope one day your my sound guy :) because i am that serious :hyper:
 
#70
So far we have...

AKG D11
AKG D112,
Audix D6
Beyer M88
CAD E100
EV RE20
Heil PR40
Samson Q-Kick
Sennheiser 421
Shure Beta 52
Shure SM57
Shure SM58

About half (?) prefer a blend of DI and mic. Do we want to open the DI can of works here, too? Avalon? A-Reddi? Doesn't matter? New thread?

:hiding:
 
#71
esoxhntr said:
Do we want to open the DI can of works here, too? Avalon? A-Reddi? Doesn't matter? New thread?

:hiding:
Click to expand...

I'm waiting for a couple weeks (when the bed for the guest room gets here) and then I am seriously considering another Avalon U5. I've owned one (twice), actually) before and in my ridiculous, young and foolish quest for tone, I sold them and tried something else. Well, I see them on so many touring racks - all those players can't be wrong.

I would consider the REDDI as it gets rave reviews, but the "sweetness" only goes to the XLR out, not the 1/4" and I want the "sweetness" to go to my stage amp as well as the FOH/Monitor system.

Then again, I used a $150 Radial JDI one Sunday (we have a pretty nice system) and a $30 CBI the next and couldn't really tell a difference so either my ears are bad, or I'm reading more into it than I should or need to.

Still, I remember when I was using an Avalon U% as a preamp and DI an dI sounded damn good - IMHO.
 
#74
Okay, I spoke with a few sound guys I know this afternoon, and the only thing they agreed on was... well actually, they didn't agree on anything except for the fact that you could mic and or DI and bass. Absolutely for sure they approved the following:

- SM57 and Radial JDI together
- 421 and D112 together
- Use the DI in the back of the amp to keep the integrity of the amp's sound
- Beta 52
- 421 and Radial JDI together
- 421, but make sure it's an old one
- SM58
- any kick drum mic I could find plus DI

One guy said that he thought the RE20 was "old school" and fussy to use live, though very nice for recording. However, he did have two used ones that he was willing to sell me. Another guy said that he used to like Beyer until they brought out the TG series.:hmm: None of these guys use Avalon or A-Reddi, but have heard about them and consider them "studio" equipment. No flames boys - these are not my opinions, 'kay? Nobody I spoke to knew anything about CAD. Everybody I spoke to had something good to say about Radial; that could be an "Up here in Canada" thing.

All of this raises a question - do the requirements change according to the size and style of the gig? It seems to me that the bigger the gig venue, the bigger the PA, the louder the volume, and the less it matters - but not having done the "big show" thing for a number of years I could be talking out of my a$$. :eyebrow:
 
#75
SteveC said:
I would consider the REDDI as it gets rave reviews, but the "sweetness" only goes to the XLR out, not the 1/4" and I want the "sweetness" to go to my stage amp as well as the FOH/Monitor system.
Click to expand...

Does this seem to make the REDDI more of a studio tool? I'm not so sure - if I'm already trying to get the "tube thing" out of my rig, why clutter it with more? I think I'd rather have the direct out of the REDDI going clean to my rig and the tube colouration going to the board/recording console.

Maybe I should just go back to playing Tuba. :scowl:
 
#76
i read all the post's and I didn't see my approach used by anyone else.

i show up , set up and start playing.
I don't own a D.I. or a mic.
If I'm going through the p.a. , i don't care about the method.
I trust the sound guy knows what he's doing.
Maybe thats a bit cavalier , but i expect EVERYONE involved with the gig to know what to do.
 
#77
Nothing wrong with that approach, Bill. Some of us are just a little more anal than you ;)

BTW, not a lot of people know how good Heil mics are. I got mine because Justin MJ raved about how good it sounded on his B-15N for a Dixie Chicks session produced by Rick Rubin. It's like an RE20 except it goes lower. And I don't see anything the least bit fussy about using either the PR 40 or the RE 20.
 
#78
JimmyM said:
Nothing wrong with that approach, Bill. Some of us are just a little more anal than you ;)

BTW, not a lot of people know how good Heil mics are. I got mine because Justin MJ raved about how good it sounded on his B-15N for a Dixie Chicks session produced by Rick Rubin. It's like an RE20 except it goes lower. And I don't see anything the least bit fussy about using either the PR 40 or the RE 20.
Click to expand...

Okay, I'm sold. I usually use a Summit Audio or BBE DI (depending on the bass), and don't mic live. When I do, it's a 421, mainly 'cause I own it, but it works well. I've recorded with PL/RE 20's repeatedly, though, and they're awesome. I HAVE to try the Heil, now.

Just thought that I'd let you know that the three times you've mentioned it this thread alone are having a positive affect :D
 
#79
Well if I had a 421, I'd be pretty darn happy with it and probably wouldn't want to buy another one. I only got the Heil because the only other mics I had were 58's and a 57, and I was looking for a mic nobody would complain about like they did the 58 and 57. But I've used a 421 a lot and it's killer. Maybe a tad bright, but in a good and easily controllable way.
 
#80
I think it really depends on how good your D.I. is. My GK700rbII has a wonderful , low Z, dialable gain , w/ pre or post. I also have an SM57 mic. Several times I have done comparisons (FOH , w/ my wireless) and this amps D.I. is so close to the sm57, that I now just use it (D.I.) all the time. But I would not say that all D.I.'s are created equal.
 

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