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mic'ing the amp 101
- Thread starter thehangingmist
- Start date
Behringer DI's are cheap! $40 and they are painted silver! I guess it's easier to see. And if us no good musicians bust the darn thing, well, it's pretty darn cheap to replace!
Back to reality, I think it's pathetic to see a sound guy pull one of these out. That being said, almost every show I do, the sound guy pulls out that Berhinger DI for my guitarist with the acoustic. Uggh! He always likes me with my Radial JDI though, I get compliments on that one ALL THE TIME!
Sorry to derail the thread -
The one mic I have used for my bass rig and recording guitar rigs, is the Audix D4. I feel it captures the "character" of a rig more accurately than most mics. It claims to have NO PROXIMITY effect, I certainly could not tell if it did in recordings. It boosts the midrange a little, the highs a little more, while keeping the lows in check. Honestly though, it reproduces a good amount of the speaker tone. I usually place it directly on the center of the cone, pointing dead on it. As close to the grill as possible - it's also a hyper-cardiod and has excellent rejection of noise. Works great when don't want mic bleed.
Back to reality, I think it's pathetic to see a sound guy pull one of these out. That being said, almost every show I do, the sound guy pulls out that Berhinger DI for my guitarist with the acoustic. Uggh! He always likes me with my Radial JDI though, I get compliments on that one ALL THE TIME!
Sorry to derail the thread -
The one mic I have used for my bass rig and recording guitar rigs, is the Audix D4. I feel it captures the "character" of a rig more accurately than most mics. It claims to have NO PROXIMITY effect, I certainly could not tell if it did in recordings. It boosts the midrange a little, the highs a little more, while keeping the lows in check. Honestly though, it reproduces a good amount of the speaker tone. I usually place it directly on the center of the cone, pointing dead on it. As close to the grill as possible - it's also a hyper-cardiod and has excellent rejection of noise. Works great when don't want mic bleed.
Am I the only one who likes the sound of a 58 (beta) on a bass cab?
It's...gnarly. I would only use it in conjunction with a DI, to get the deep lows, but I like the sound.
It's...gnarly. I would only use it in conjunction with a DI, to get the deep lows, but I like the sound.
Here's a cameraphone shot of the halfstack rig I used this weekend:
If you're keeping score:
The signal path is: bass to pedals. A Tech 21 VT Bass pedal is the primary, always on tone generator.
That goes into channel 1 on a M-Audio preamp, line out to input on the YAMAHA poweramp (800watts bridged mono into 8ohms).
2-10's cabinet.
Here's a pic of my pedals:
Invalid Link Removed
I mic'd the cabinet with an AKG C1000s, sent the signal to the second channel on the M-Audio preamp, lined that into my DI for the FOH and IEM's.
The mic'd cabinet sounded really, really good in the IEM.
If you're keeping score:
The signal path is: bass to pedals. A Tech 21 VT Bass pedal is the primary, always on tone generator.
That goes into channel 1 on a M-Audio preamp, line out to input on the YAMAHA poweramp (800watts bridged mono into 8ohms).
2-10's cabinet.
Here's a pic of my pedals:
Invalid Link Removed
I mic'd the cabinet with an AKG C1000s, sent the signal to the second channel on the M-Audio preamp, lined that into my DI for the FOH and IEM's.
The mic'd cabinet sounded really, really good in the IEM.
how can you tell? are you getting the mic back through IEMs, or did you get a chance to wander out into the room?
its always a 421 for me in the studio.
jimmy, im with you on keeping the mic back a bit. its always few inches back. i take a DI just because i can. if i really lose that much bottom end by NOT using proximity effect, then ill use the DI to fix it, but that never happens. i always hi-cut my bass to avoid mush anyway.
all too often the FOH guy taking a DI ill boost lows until he gets the boom hes looking for in the lows and low mids.. taking ALL the sub-bass with it, as it is a shelving filter. i spend a lot of shows with my fingers in my ears and my intestines rattling. not pleasant.
many mics will do, but the smaller and cheaper the better live. 421s and re-20s are bulky and expensive. something like the pr-30/35 is pretty solid down to the frequencies necessary, lower profile and significantly cheaper.
jimmy, im with you on keeping the mic back a bit. its always few inches back. i take a DI just because i can. if i really lose that much bottom end by NOT using proximity effect, then ill use the DI to fix it, but that never happens. i always hi-cut my bass to avoid mush anyway.
all too often the FOH guy taking a DI ill boost lows until he gets the boom hes looking for in the lows and low mids.. taking ALL the sub-bass with it, as it is a shelving filter. i spend a lot of shows with my fingers in my ears and my intestines rattling. not pleasant.
many mics will do, but the smaller and cheaper the better live. 421s and re-20s are bulky and expensive. something like the pr-30/35 is pretty solid down to the frequencies necessary, lower profile and significantly cheaper.
sa, in the genre you play, i would use the cheapest mic possible for fear some numbnuts will plow into your rig and break the mic 
sa, in the genre you play, i would use the cheapest mic possible for fear some numbnuts will plow into your rig and break the mic
i play guitar in that band, so its technically not relevant
. id be plowing over a 57 anyhow (boo hoo). and as ridiculous as we are on stage, weve never come close to knocking anything over. very aware of our space. and no one comes on stage (club owners forbid it anymore). the only way those ninja kicking fruits are coming anywhere near my amp is if we are playing at ground level, which implies that the show is crap and there are no mics.if'n we make a trip down to orlando/apopka, ill let you know. you can get a 30 minute lesson in the reinvention of hardcore music.
pinch me...i'm dreamingi play guitar in that band, so its technically not relevant
if'n we make a trip down to orlando/apopka, ill let you know. you can get a 30 minute lesson in the reinvention of hardcore music.
A few thoughts:
-Personally I'd try to avoid miking a bass amp onstage. IME you're more likely to get mud in your tone that way, more opportunity for feedback, etc. I'd prefer a Behringer DI to a miked bass cab most of the time. Going through any kind of DI really cleans up the signal for live bass and gives the engineer more control.
- In the studio, I'd go with a large diaphragm condenser mic a few inches away from the speaker (or further, depending on how much room you want in the sound). They suffer from the proximity effect, but they have better bass response than... any other mic? Don't know that for sure, but due to the size and sensitivity of the capsule, they are very faithful on the low end. Any dynamic mic I can think of will color your sound, for better or worse, whereas an LDC is more likely to give you an even response curve. I'd rather tweak my frequencies at the board and in the mix, but that's my preference talking.
-Personally I'd try to avoid miking a bass amp onstage. IME you're more likely to get mud in your tone that way, more opportunity for feedback, etc. I'd prefer a Behringer DI to a miked bass cab most of the time. Going through any kind of DI really cleans up the signal for live bass and gives the engineer more control.
- In the studio, I'd go with a large diaphragm condenser mic a few inches away from the speaker (or further, depending on how much room you want in the sound). They suffer from the proximity effect, but they have better bass response than... any other mic? Don't know that for sure, but due to the size and sensitivity of the capsule, they are very faithful on the low end. Any dynamic mic I can think of will color your sound, for better or worse, whereas an LDC is more likely to give you an even response curve. I'd rather tweak my frequencies at the board and in the mix, but that's my preference talking.
thats if you're of the "i want my tone 100% pure" mentality, which is ridiculous. there is more in the mix than just your bass.
the low end roll off on most mics is good for a mix. and you dont want 10khz cranking in your mix because the bass is 100% untouched.
and in the studio, we like color. its what makes records sound like records. you commit to colors. if you want your bass 100% flat, use an omnidirectional reference mic or take a DI.
and mic does not equal mud. i could put any mic in my collection (except my ribbon mic) up on stage on ANY bass amp and get a clear tone.
and FOH engineer needs LESS control when it comes to bass. the more access to sub bass they have, the more likely they are to cause hearing damage and wreck the mix.
ill take an anemic sounding 57 over a DI anyday.
point is, the colors of microphones are a good thing. mics help us carve niches for instruments. FOH engineers could get superior tone with a mic they like vs trying to EQ in something that works, if they bother to try. it takes the EQ work out of it.
and i want to avoid the disinformation that a mic on stage will cause bad tone and feedback. ive not once heard feedback from a mic on an amp. vocals, yes often. amps, never.
and i want to avoid the disinformation that a mic on stage will cause bad tone and feedback. ive not once heard feedback from a mic on an amp. vocals, yes often. amps, never.
i've heard that old wives' tale from people who should know better, too.
btw, i was just busting balls about your band with that "pinch me" thing. i'll be happy to come see you guys if i'm not working...as long as you promise to wear a damn shirt. the second it comes off, i'm out.
btw, i was just busting balls about your band with that "pinch me" thing. i'll be happy to come see you guys if i'm not working...as long as you promise to wear a damn shirt. the second it comes off, i'm out.
no promises haha. my pasty skin glistens under those lights, and you should be damn happy to experience it.
something about a combination of heat and guitar INSTANTLY makes me want to remove my shirt. its always been that way. most practices in the spring and summer, and at least halfway into every gig ive ever played.
There is a situation or two where you have to push an instrument mic to near feedback territory to get the job done. But it has to be a perfect storm of issues.
Slightly more common is picking up the vibrations through the stand sitting on a poorly built stage. While not feedback, it can be tricky to seperate the good from the bad.
Thats about all the issues I can think of against mics anymore and I only run into those rarely anymore..
Slightly more common is picking up the vibrations through the stand sitting on a poorly built stage. While not feedback, it can be tricky to seperate the good from the bad.
Thats about all the issues I can think of against mics anymore and I only run into those rarely anymore..
I do realize this is an old thread, but my question is relevant. I am going to mic a 10 inch bass speaker at an outdoor event coming up in May. I have only two choices. SM58 or SM57. Which would be better? Shure specs say the 58 actually goes a little lower. From everything I've read, I think I will place it close to the grill and just a little off the edge of the cone.
