micing vs. DI

[Mark Reccord]

Believe me, (assuming close miked here) a single mic on a bass rig doesn't significantly affect system gain or eat up significant headroom vs a DI. Bleed really isn't an issue for mics on bass or guitar amps, unless they're running very very quietly.

I can also say from experience that putting a mic on a ported box doesn't typically result in a very significant loss of low end, probably owing to the proximity effect of the mic. A DI signal will have LF information that most bass guitar cabinets can't even remotely reproduce accurately. In most situations some HPF at the desk is necessary on both types of signals.

I'm also not a fan of dedicated kick drum mics on a bass rig. They almost all have a really deep mid scoop when used close up. I like mics like the 421, Beyerdynamic M88, Beta57a and even the lowly 57. They leave the important mids in the signal.

All in all, for anyone with a modicum of skill as a sound person, putting a mic on a bass rig and dealing with it is not even close the most difficult thing they'll face on a typical gig. It's trivial. Of course there are situations where it works better than others but seriously, reading this thread would make anyone think that miking a bass amp and making it work in the mix is an insurmountable difficulty. That's simply not the case.

 

[elwuss]

but seriously, reading this thread would make anyone think that miking a bass amp and making it work in the mix is an insurmountable difficulty. That's simply not the case.

WORD!

 

[bigchiefbc]

I'm also not a fan of dedicated kick drum mics on a bass rig. They almost all have a really deep mid scoop when used close up. I like mics like the 421, Beyerdynamic M88, Beta57a and even the lowly 57. They leave the important mids in the signal.

Indeed, I found the same thing when I tried a Beta 52 and it sounded like butt. I loathed the mid-scoop it gave my signal. That's when I started pouring through mic datasheets and was getting quite discouraged that all of the mics with a flat mid response were expensive (except for the 57, which I've also tried and found that it just cut way too much lows). The AKG P2 is what I eventually went with; super-flat response for about 100 bucks. I'm totally happy with it.

All in all, for anyone with a modicum of skill as a sound person, putting a mic on a bass rig and dealing with it is not even close the most difficult thing they'll face on a typical gig. It's trivial. Of course there are situations where it works better than others but seriously, reading this thread would make anyone think that miking a bass amp and making it work in the mix is an insurmountable difficulty. That's simply not the case.

+1 - Maybe I've been blessed to work with easy-going soundguys, but I haven't had a single one yet have a problem with my setting up my mic rather than DI'ing. We've done our own sound for some gigs, and it's really not any more work than setting up a DI; either way, you're still going to need to adjust the EQ for the room and dial out boominess and resonances.

 

[bassdrop]

I think the real takeaway here is to take the gear to the gig that you prefer and know how to use to get a good sound. If you want a good mic, own a good mic and stand and have it ready to go for the soundman. If you don't want to plug in to a crappy house DI then bring something you know sounds better.

That said, my own recipe is to run a speaker level DI from my tube amp but the key to having a good overdrive sound is to run a Fulltone BassDrive that cuts out the super high stuff. Any fuzz I put in front of that isn't so overbright that I'm killing people. The bassdrive also cuts the super lows so that the sound is more punchy, but I can disable it if I want a smoother tone and greater extension into the super lows, which can be helpful when I kick on the octave pedal.

 

[bassdrop]

EDIT: The key here is also keeping the Overdrive knob on the Bassdrive very low.

 

[Mark Reccord]

Indeed, I found the same thing when I tried a Beta 52 and it sounded like butt. I loathed the mid-scoop it gave my signal. That's when I started pouring through mic datasheets and was getting quite discouraged that all of the mics with a flat mid response were expensive (except for the 57, which I've also tried and found that it just cut way too much lows). The AKG P2 is what I eventually went with; super-flat response for about 100 bucks. I'm totally happy with it.

Yeah, the SM57 can definitely be a little anemic in the low end, but I have gotten good results with it in some situations. It's great if you have a DI signal to add a bit of bottom. I've found the Beta 57A to work quite well for bass guitar. Good midrange, more low end than the SM

+1 - Maybe I've been blessed to work with easy-going soundguys, but I haven't had a single one yet have a problem with my setting up my mic rather than DI'ing. We've done our own sound for some gigs, and it's really not any more work than setting up a DI; either way, you're still going to need to adjust the EQ for the room and dial out boominess and resonances.

Exactly. I've only ever run into one guy who had an issue with it. Turns out he had a lot more issues and we ended up enforcing our contract rider giving us discretion over sound people and I mixed the band myself. The festival organizers were so mad with this guy that they made the PA provider replace him the day after our show. He wasn't just a jerk to us.

 

[JimmyM]

Some soundmen are very easy-going about stuff like that but a handful aren't. Trust me.

 

[bluesdogblues]

everybody knows drive + DI = crap.

is the micing the only way of doing it? because honestly I'm already tired of explaining it every time to the sound guy

maybe it's a silly question, but is it possible to put DI somewhere else in the chain so it doesn't mess up the sound?

*drive + DI doesn't have to be crap.
*soundguy is your partner, if explaining is the best communication term to have the best possible partnership, I'll do it. Lucky me I have my own roadie/soundman/engineer/tech with me all of my gigs.
*miking is not the only way to do that. It has advantages, yes.
*I sometime put DI after my effect (including distortions/drives) but as you said that that way is crap, no argument here, we're different.

 

[kbakerde]

So here is question about micing a cabinet, what kind of mic stand do you use? Anyone have any luck with mounting the mic onto the speaker cab?

 

[JimmyM]

I used the Z Right Stuff Z Bar:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Or I used a little lowboy mic stand.

 

[georgestrings]

I used the Z Right Stuff Z Bar:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Or I used a little lowboy mic stand.

I've used Z Bars for micing guitar cabs, and they work great - I don't see why they wouldn't for bass, also...


- georgestrings