Microtubes X

[TodaysTomSawyer]

What? I'm pretty sure the x refers to x-over aka cross over because there's a crossover in the circuit before the distortion that lets through whatever is above a user-selected crossover.

"Without a separate clean channel to dial things in before the crossover, its rather a multiband that keeps the low clean to allow for shaping high gain to fuzz levels of DG flavors of distortion on the high end, correct?" Couldn't you put pedals before the DG X and call THAT your "clean channel to dial things in before the crossover"?

"Not trying to oversimplify" if anything I think you're overthinking it.


Now, I am completely open to having egg all over my face from my response, so apologies if I've muddied the waters

Since the I'm not clear on the circuit here, still not now and everyone keeps asking after all this time, I started thinking that perhaps the "X" is more about the circuit or distortion rather than just the crossover distorting the highs. Even at low gain (listening on studio monitors) there seems to be a tinny high or fizz, unless that's a result of something else. On other multi-bands and crossovers there are separate clean channels to dial in the clean and lows. Then when you mix crossover you can hear what it affects and how you want it to hit the highs. Thus my comparing in terms of biamping a bass amp and guitar amp. I know its crossover so that's why I said "per se" in reference to this multiband design. Doug said it has the highest amount of gain on tap, so keeping the lows clean would help from oversaturating or turning the entire signal to mush. This design would work better than a regular clean blend for that.. I'm hopped up on Monster energy so I may have been thinking fast . I'm just trying to put it together to make a wise purchase instead of just ordering just because

Edit: aside from muddy waters, am I understanding the rest of it right? Or should I wait for maybe an Ultra version

 

[Kevin Hide Bass]

I thought X was just a name celebrating 10 years since the original B3K design.

 

[TodaysTomSawyer]

I thought X was just a name celebrating 10 years since the original B3K design.

Haha, that would make sense too

 

[BunchyMutt]

I thought X was just a name celebrating 10 years since the original B3K design.

I thought it was because Doug was going straightedge

 

[BunchyMutt]

Since the I'm not clear on the circuit here, still not now and everyone keeps asking after all this time, I started thinking that perhaps the "X" is more about the circuit or distortion rather than just the crossover distorting the highs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like your confusion comes from (a) how the circuit works and (b) whether the "x" in the name refers to the crossover or to the distortion circuit itself.

I'm taking these in reverse order.

(b) I personally think the X in the name refers to the crossover since, as far as I know, there has been absolutely no indication that X is somehow symbolic of the distortion circuit itself, whether in reference to the type of chip/circuit/whatever.

When you write "I started thinking that perhaps the "X" is more about the circuit or distortion rather than just the crossover distorting the highs. Even at low gain (listening on studio monitors) there seems to be a tinny high or fizz, unless that's a result of something else", could you maybe give an example of a pedal or anything where tinny high/fizz is linked in some way to the letter x?

It seems far more likely that rather than referring to a circuit component that has not been revealed at all, it refers to the fact that the circuit has a crossover.

Which brings us to (a). I'm wondering if some confusion is coming from us having different understandings of what specific conditions need to be met in order for the term "crossover" to be used. In your earlier post you wrote that "Without a separate clean channel to dial things in before the crossover, its rather a multiband". I'm confused by this for a couple reasons. Firstly, because like the XD-2 there are previous examples of distortion pedals that literally use the term "crossover" as well as literally use the letter x to denote the crossover. Secondly, because isn't anything you feed the pedal pretty much a clean channel? I've always understood 'crossover' to refer to the point at which an audio signal is split (not doubled) into two parts, lows and highs. The crossover point is the center frequency where those filter slopes intersect. If you have a different understanding of what a crossover is, I'd love to hear it. Just a warning, this is my last long post on this subject.

Edit: aside from muddy waters, am I understanding the rest of it right? Or should I wait for maybe an Ultra version

Now I'm wondering if the confusion is coming from the fact that you're referring to the Microtubes X? Or are you hoping for a dual foot switch of the X7, sorta like the DP-3X? You write "On other multi-bands and crossovers there are separate clean channels to dial in the clean and lows." The X7 has that. The Microtubes X has that with the Mix control.

Even at low gain (listening on studio monitors) there seems to be a tinny high or fizz, unless that's a result of something else.

That could be the result of the DG pedal, the bass, the sound card, the audio interface, the youtube compression....a bunch of different reasons.

Doug said it has the highest amount of gain on tap, so keeping the lows clean would help from oversaturating or turning the entire signal to mush. This design would work better than a regular clean blend for that..

Yes...which is why he made the pedal like he did...

 

[Fuzzbass]

X or XO is common shorthand for crossover. On the X and X7, there's independent control for the low band and high band - there can be a gap or overlap - unlike a classic pro audio crossover where an XO point applies to both bands.

 

[TodaysTomSawyer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like your confusion comes from (a) how the circuit works and (b) whether the "x" in the name refers to the crossover or to the distortion circuit itself.

I'm taking these in reverse order.

(b) I personally think the X in the name refers to the crossover since, as far as I know, there has been absolutely no indication that X is somehow symbolic of the distortion circuit itself, whether in reference to the type of chip/circuit/whatever.

When you write "I started thinking that perhaps the "X" is more about the circuit or distortion rather than just the crossover distorting the highs. Even at low gain (listening on studio monitors) there seems to be a tinny high or fizz, unless that's a result of something else", could you maybe give an example of a pedal or anything where tinny high/fizz is linked in some way to the letter x?

It seems far more likely that rather than referring to a circuit component that has not been revealed at all, it refers to the fact that the circuit has a crossover.

Which brings us to (a). I'm wondering if some confusion is coming from us having different understandings of what specific conditions need to be met in order for the term "crossover" to be used. In your earlier post you wrote that "Without a separate clean channel to dial things in before the crossover, its rather a multiband". I'm confused by this for a couple reasons. Firstly, because like the XD-2 there are previous examples of distortion pedals that literally use the term "crossover" as well as literally use the letter x to denote the crossover. Secondly, because isn't anything you feed the pedal pretty much a clean channel? I've always understood 'crossover' to refer to the point at which an audio signal is split (not doubled) into two parts, lows and highs. The crossover point is the center frequency where those filter slopes intersect. If you have a different understanding of what a crossover is, I'd love to hear it. Just a warning, this is my last long post on this subject.

Now I'm wondering if the confusion is coming from the fact that you're referring to the Microtubes X? Or are you hoping for a dual foot switch of the X7, sorta like the DP-3X? You write "On other multi-bands and crossovers there are separate clean channels to dial in the clean and lows." The X7 has that. The Microtubes X has that with the Mix control.


That could be the result of the DG pedal, the bass, the sound card, the audio interface, the youtube compression....a bunch of different reasons.

Yes...which is why he made the pedal like he did...

​

I'm NOT being critical. I was about to order. I was looking for info! Knit picking things out of context is confusing the point. An informative approach would've been nice. I don't care if I'm wrong about something as long as I learn, or I wouldn't ask. I'm familiar with crossover and my ears are too.

I brought up what I'm hearing in regards to low gain as an example. Because I still hear a faint tinny fizz (non-related to the letter X, obviously). Followed by I'm aware it may be a result of something else. Followed with further explanation about what I was getting at of how having a separate clean channel helps, for me at least especially with dialing in things like low gain and keeping my bass' tone with higher gain settings... And yes, I know there's a Mix control but just for mixing in the "clean lows" as the highs are split and filtered. An Ultra version, if following DG suit, would have a separate Clean channel. Which I may wait for if there is one

I suppose now I should've just mentioned, that the way I'm understanding the X after the checking out the demos, which I found useful, is that it seems Darkglass maybe used this multiband design to create a pedal capable of creating monster distortion flavors and using crossover works best in this case. After researching, Doug said in the DP-3X thread that he'd been working on this and created something similar for Dick Lovgren of Meshuggah. Which the logic there makes sense to me why the X may be designed this way. Its smart in that musical context. Again, I could be wrong so that's why I ask

I have every DG circuit already and I'm curious about this circuit and I wanted to know more. So since it "still" isn't quite clear what the circuit is other than speculation, I inferred the "X" may also be in reference to an X-factor or unknown distortion found as a result from the ability to tweak existing circuits on the DG B*K to fuzz spectrum. As the sound is familiar. If its not no big deal... That's all I was getting at

 

[BunchyMutt]

I'm NOT being critical. I was about to order. I was looking for info! Knit picking things out of context is confusing the point. An informative approach would've been nice. I don't care if I'm wrong about something as long as I learn, or I wouldn't ask. I'm familiar with crossover and my ears are too.

You're all good I only read inquisitiveness, not critical at all

 

[TodaysTomSawyer]

You're all good I only read inquisitiveness, not critical at all

 

[Krisfield]

You could go nuts in separating the the high and low signals. Could use two X7's in parallel using a parallel out on one of the units. Then on the high channel add in other OD boxes to get alternative OD sounds.

 

[BunchyMutt]

alternative OD sounds.

Read another x7

 

[Darkglass]

X refers to crossover, which is a term used in audio engineering for when a signal is split into 2 or more, and then filtered, which has been used for decades for any application in which you'd want distinct processing for different ranges of the spectrum (i.e., almost anything, headphones, studio monitors, PA systems).

In the X the signal is split, filtered so that a portion of the spectrum can be distorted while the other kept clean or compressed.

The cool thing is that both cut-off points can be changed separately: you can choose the texture and fuzziness/attack of the highs, how pure the lows versus leaving some mids clean.

This allows you to chose whether any given portion mids (whatever overlap area between both filters) stay clean or distorted, which is cool.

Sometimes the desired amount of distorted high frequencies and clean bass blended back in can leave a small mid scoop, which is why even the 4 knob X has an active mid control, in case you'd like to bring those mids back up.

This gives the user as much control as you possibly can over how the distortion will sound, even with the small X.

Again, I look forward to you trying it. In all honesty, it's tough for me to use a regular Microtubes nowadays, since I first tested the first X7 prototype, I have never been able to go back to a B7K Ultra or Vintage.

 

[hbabels]

X refers to crossover, which is a term used in audio engineering for when a signal is split into 2 or more, and then filtered, which has been used for decades for any application in which you'd want distinct processing for different ranges of the spectrum (i.e., almost anything, headphones, studio monitors, PA systems).

In the X the signal is split, filtered so that a portion of the spectrum can be distorted while the other kept clean or compressed.

The cool thing is that both cut-off points can be changed separately: you can choose the texture and fuzziness/attack of the highs, how pure the lows versus leaving some mids clean.

This allows you to chose whether any given portion mids (whatever overlap area between both filters) stay clean or distorted, which is cool.

Sometimes the desired amount of distorted high frequencies and clean bass blended back in can leave a small mid scoop, which is why even the 4 knob X has an active mid control, in case you'd like to bring those mids back up.

This gives the user as much control as you possibly can over how the distortion will sound, even with the small X.

Again, I look forward to you trying it. In all honesty, it's tough for me to use a regular Microtubes nowadays, since I first tested the first X7 prototype, I have never been able to go back to a B7K Ultra or Vintage.

Thanks for the info ! Gotta try this pedal!!

 

[Jantelagen]

I thought you guys were getting somewhere. If the X just means Microtubes Crossover or Crossover 7 then what's the specificity of this darkglass distortion? Its a crossover pedal, but I'm confused by the blurry descriptions of the distortion circuit used. Is it not easily or readily explained? While its not really a new or different distortion does that mean the High Drive level with the HPF adjust the highs to go, minus the AO, into b7k/vmt sounding to duality range?

 

[Darkglass]

I thought you guys were getting somewhere. If the X just means Microtubes Crossover or Crossover 7 then what's the specificity of this darkglass distortion? Its a crossover pedal, but I'm confused by the blurry descriptions of the distortion circuit used. Is it not easily or readily explained? While its not really a new or different distortion does that mean the High Drive level with the HPF adjust the highs to go, minus the AO, into b7k/vmt sounding to duality range?

It’s tough to give a precise answer because it is hard to understand the question.

I’ll try to summarize distortion sound design as briefly as I can:

Any distortion character is the byproduct of dynamic and frequency responses in a system (pedal in this case).

Which is why the design of a circuit is far more relevant, to the overall sound, than any topology in isolation (tube vs. opamp, etc.).

Altering the filtering occurring pre and post distortion, combined with how much gain the stage(s) have would allow someone to approximate most distorted sounds (except for tube power amplifiers, where the natural interactions between power tubes, output transformer, and reactive load are far trickier to model).

This first principle applies to most, if not distortion pedals.

Multiband and crossover distortions, such as the Microtubes X, give a lot of control over the pre-distortion filter (whereas the EQ post), which is a big part of what makes distortions sound the way they do, it is the pre-clipping filtering (times the gain) that dictates the amount of clank or fuzz, and everything in between.

So when people ask which distortion of mine I used on the X, the answers “both” or “none” are equally correct and untrue.

It’s both since they share common elements (CMOS gain stages for instance), but also none since the gain structure is different, and the fixed filters that would give them their character are now fully adjustable, making them something completely different.

I’m looking forward for people to weigh in, as 1 minute of testing the pedals will do 1000x than my verbalizations ever could.

 

[FaithNoMan]

I thought you guys were getting somewhere. If the X just means Microtubes Crossover or Crossover 7 then what's the specificity of this darkglass distortion? Its a crossover pedal, but I'm confused by the blurry descriptions of the distortion circuit used. Is it not easily or readily explained?

Its like a supercharged version of the B3K/VMT circuit? With added compression in the lows and way more sculpting options, basically turning it into something different. I trust Doug's ear.

While its not really a new or different distortion does that mean the High Drive level with the HPF adjust the highs to go, minus the AO, into b7k/vmt sounding to duality range?

That part was very hard to understand.

 

[Jantelagen]

Its like a supercharged version of the B3K/VMT circuit?

I have b7Ku so as others mentioned if I'm happy with it I'm probably good depending on my needs.

That part was very hard to understand.

I don't quite understand your reply either. Doug's post helped a little more with what to expect

 

[FaithNoMan]

I have b7Ku so as others mentioned if I'm happy with it I'm probably good depending on my needs.



I don't quite understand your reply either. Doug's post helped a little more with what to expect

It's all good. He posted while I was writing mine! Def go with Doug's version

 

[willsellout]

X's and X7's have officially hit our warehouse. I'm excited to hear peoples reviews of them.

 

[monsterthompson]

X's and X7's have officially hit our warehouse. I'm excited to hear peoples reviews of them.

Good. All this discussion of what it theoretically is has turned into a soup sandwich. Looking forward to more concrete descriptions.