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Mikeyswood - BUYER BEWARE

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#161
Musiclogic said:
The parts and wood are yours Alex, NOT his. They were purchased with YOUR Money. There is no way the parts and wood cost $1750, that is a load.

This bass which I did for a customer with hipshot hardware, custom wound pickups, Aguilar OBP3, Mac Ebony board, Custom wood knobs, 1/2" thick lace Burl top, wenge and purpleheart neck through cost just under $1000 in parts and materials including frets nut and finish.

full3.jpg


full2.jpg


I want to know where he spent $1750???
Click to expand...

I see the solution! Its right there....get the parts back and give them to this guy and get it done by HJC :). That bass looks awesome.
 
#162
Alex, let me ask you something. When you lost your job did you make changes to the bass for cost reasons or hint that you might now follow through on your order?

I ask because reading the Facebook chat I can't fathom why else he would refer to that as a "problem". You'd already sent in your deposit so I'm confused as to why he mentioned it.

A small thing but it seemed odd to me. Actually most of your interactions with him seem odd to me. For someone who talks about the "value of his time" and the time he needs to compose emails etc you'd expect a higher degree of professionalism.

It's funny because I now only have instruments from two luthiers - Chris Stambaugh and Alan Cringean (ACG). Alan is amazing with his communication and customer support. He answers emails promptly, gives frequent updates, sends pictures at each stage of development, has a detailed invoices and spec sheets that he revises whenever a change is made and hits his deadlines or contacts you to say why there might be a delay. He's also active here at TB, several other forums and facebook and keeps his site updated.

Chris on the other hand has a much more laid back approach. He responds to emails but does them once a week or so (less when really busy) in a big batch, sends one or two sets of progress picks and basically works out any existing details as he goes along. For instance, he emailed me right before starting the necks to figure out the nut width I wanted on my new bass. And likewise I called him the day before my bass went to the finisher to change the color from candy apple red to candy tangerine. He also tends to give optimistic build times.

But I do know that if I ever need to reach him with a question, a change or an update all I have to do is call. Both are great guys and great builders and while they have different levels of interaction (and as much as I love Chris, I prefer Alan's approach) I have every confidence in both of them. And both greatly respect me as a customer.

I hate that your situation seems to be lacking in both of those things: Faith in the builder and him having respect for you. To have this kind of protracted wait time AND a lack of communication is ridiculous.

I certainly hope you get your bass or some other form of satisfaction from this whole ordeal. Personally I don't think I'd even want it. Because my instruments, in addition to be tools and (IMO) works of art are also a reflection of the men who built them for me which makes me proud to have them on stage with me or hanging on the wall in the front room of my house.

Best of luck.
 
#163
Hi Jared,
On my phone at work here so I must be brief. When I became redundant, I told Mike I was cancelling the build. No materials or concrete specs were purchased or made at that time. Mike, in his genuine generosity, offered to continue the build until such time as I was back in the workforce. I commend him for that.

July last year I was back in the money, and we went ahead. I do not recall a spec changing between those two events.

Some minor specs have changed since I dropped down the 50%, but no "multiple revisions" that I am aware of. Certainly nothing that should have prevented the completion of the neck blank he has done :)
 
#164
Again, I'll play the bad guy. I'm not trying to be an ass but my experience with Mike has been much different so this whole deal hard for me to understand.

Alex, where you given anything like this email that discusses Mike's pricing and such? This is why I'm confused... the no contracted completetion date was an up front thing that I signed on for. I understood that if Mike's availability to work on the bass, due to whatever, was constrained that my bass would take more time. I wish you could hear my tone of voice, as it's one of confusion and not debate or blame....

> My pricing is as straight forward as it can be: one for you and one for me.
> That works out to be twice the cost of materials plus $250. With this
> pricing I also do a pay-as-I-go plan; the first payment is the shop fee of
> $250 to finalize the plans for your instrument. The next payment is for wood
> and is due before wood gets cut; about one month after the plans are
> approved. After that, the finish payment is due when the woodwork is
> complete. Finally the electronics and hardware payment is due when the
> instrument is complete; this is always the largest. My customers also have
> the option of providing me with the materials. You can usually find great
> deals on parts that you want during construction. The caveat to that is I
> request you to provide two of them; one for you and one for me. Instruments
> from me are usually one year from thought to finish. There can be delays in
> parts availability as well as my own availability to work on these so I do
> charge $5000 for a stated deadline. Surprisingly no one has yet been
> committed enough to pay for a calendar day.
 
#166
stepswork4me said:
Again, I'll play the bad guy. I'm not trying to be an ass but my experience with Mike has been much different so this whole deal hard for me to understand.

Alex, where you given anything like this email that discusses Mike's pricing and such? This is why I'm confused... the no contracted completetion date was an up front thing that I signed on for. I understood that if Mike's availability to work on the bass, due to whatever, was constrained that my bass would take more time. I wish you could hear my tone of voice, as it's one of confusion and not debate or blame....

> My pricing is as straight forward as it can be: one for you and one for me.
> That works out to be twice the cost of materials plus $250. With this
> pricing I also do a pay-as-I-go plan; the first payment is the shop fee of
> $250 to finalize the plans for your instrument. The next payment is for wood
> and is due before wood gets cut; about one month after the plans are
> approved. After that, the finish payment is due when the woodwork is
> complete. Finally the electronics and hardware payment is due when the
> instrument is complete; this is always the largest. My customers also have
> the option of providing me with the materials. You can usually find great
> deals on parts that you want during construction. The caveat to that is I
> request you to provide two of them; one for you and one for me. Instruments
> from me are usually one year from thought to finish. There can be delays in
> parts availability as well as my own availability to work on these so I do
> charge $5000 for a stated deadline. Surprisingly no one has yet been
> committed enough to pay for a calendar day.
Click to expand...

I had contacted Mike about building me a custom bass a little before you did.
I received the same e mail. I was also told the build could take a lot longer, up to two years but I was getting a great deal on a custom bass.
I never went ahead with the build for other reasons.

I am not condoning Mikes behavior.
I am glad that I did not go ahead with the build.

I feel bad for Alex.
I know what I would do.
 
#167
stepswork4me said:
Again, I'll play the bad guy. I'm not trying to be an ass but my experience with Mike has been much different so this whole deal hard for me to understand.

Alex, where you given anything like this email that discusses Mike's pricing and such? This is why I'm confused... the no contracted completetion date was an up front thing that I signed on for. I understood that if Mike's availability to work on the bass, due to whatever, was constrained that my bass would take more time. I wish you could hear my tone of voice, as it's one of confusion and not debate or blame....

> My pricing is as straight forward as it can be: one for you and one for me.
> That works out to be twice the cost of materials plus $250. With this
> pricing I also do a pay-as-I-go plan; the first payment is the shop fee of
> $250 to finalize the plans for your instrument. The next payment is for wood
> and is due before wood gets cut; about one month after the plans are
> approved. After that, the finish payment is due when the woodwork is
> complete. Finally the electronics and hardware payment is due when the
> instrument is complete; this is always the largest. My customers also have
> the option of providing me with the materials. You can usually find great
> deals on parts that you want during construction. The caveat to that is I
> request you to provide two of them; one for you and one for me. Instruments
> from me are usually one year from thought to finish. There can be delays in
> parts availability as well as my own availability to work on these so I do
> charge $5000 for a stated deadline. Surprisingly no one has yet been
> committed enough to pay for a calendar day.
Click to expand...

You aren't the bad guy, Steps. You're getting a deal you are happy with, and that's cool

As for conditions I got the following (these are quotes from TB PM's) Check out the dates - communication was pretty open back then

08-14-10
My pricing is as straight forward as it can be: one for you and one for me. That works out to be twice the cost of materials plus $250 for shop consumables.
Click to expand...

08-17-10
As previously mentioned, my pricing is as straight forward as it can be: one for you and one for me. I am lucky enough that Chemistry pays my bills so I am able to experiment and create unique instruments for love. These work out to be twice the cost of materials with $250 for the shop consumables and that goes for the wildest laminations that you can conceive. My Marlan build is costing me about ~$1400 (~$3050 sell price) and a similarly optioned Alembic quotes for $9600 to give you an idea. The Alembic electronics were over half the cost of materials.

With this pricing I also do a pay-as-I-go plan; the first payment is the shop materials of $250 to finalize the plans for your instrument. The next payment is for wood and is due before wood gets cut; about one month after the plans are approved. After that, the finish payment is due when the woodwork is complete. Finally the electronics and hardware payment is due when the instrument is complete; this is always the largest. My partners also have the option of providing me with the materials. You can usually find great deals on parts that you want during construction. The caveat to that is I request you to provide two of them; one for you and one for me.

Instruments from me are usually one year from thought to finish. This makes the payments more bearable as well as gives you a great opportunity to find deals along the way. There can be delays in parts availability as well as my own availability to work on these. If you must have this at a certain time we can discuss a calender day deadline.
Click to expand...

I requested September 2011

08-18-2010
The first $250 covers all of the shop consumables and serves as your commitment to begin this process. Once you commit, we hammer out the details of the woods, design, hardware, finish, and electronics. When you and I have as much as possible cleared up front we can begin the building.

The wood cost is usually ~$400 total, hardware is usually ~$250, finish is about $300, electronics are usually what breaks the bank nearly $1000 for my higher end ones, but may be under $100 for what you are wanting. The costs are just ballpark and we can get the costs closer after we begin.

September is a realistic goal. The winter months are usually slower for me in the shop because cold steel is no fun to touch. Fall and spring are the best because I can work with the bay door open.
Click to expand...

This is the first I have heard of a $5000 completion date purchase.

No need to explain your tone - I know you're being cool. I'm guessing at some stage you were told about all the other things Mike was taking on and that luthiery was taking a backseat, and as such you are fine with your deal.

I wasn't given that same courtesy.

This was also in my emails he was being a really nice bloke here, and I again applaud him for this. Please note what is in bold

Hi Alex,

That is some bloody horrible news. I hope it all works out for you.

I am really excited be the elegant design as well as the challenges that this bass presents. I hope that we don't have to put this bass on hold; so instead, I am proposing that we merely put the payments on hold for now. Let us continue the design and construction of this bass. Should fate continue it's good graces during this process we can return to normal at your leisure. I have a friend that is heading down under next summer and the timing may work. If I am able to complete this bass before security returns to you then I will set this up as a normal range bass for my personal collection. If nothing else it will serve as a prototype for when fate is more generous to you.

Should this plan be acceptable to you then let me know your input on the design changes.

Bass wishes,
Mike
Click to expand...

P.S. The Alembic line is wearing VERY thin
 
#169
I hear ya... I think that was around the time, that late summer/early fall that he was starting the process of getting his ankle replaced. I knew he was getting involved with other things. I met his partners and got involved with the Blues fest a little myself. I guess I'm just taken by surprise with all of the folks talking about suing him, calling him a bad person, yada yada... I can understand all of the frustration on both sides of the street. Yours and Mike's that is. I hope that cooler heads prevail and this whole thing works out. I know that Mike's quality is top notch and that you'd end up with a very nice bass for a reasonable price. I also know that the guy doesn't need the money. I hope you guys can work it out.
 
#170
I'm going to call it quits on posting inhere guys, unless I have further developments. I feel I have been very honest and transparent in my publishing of private conversations (emails and PM's)

I have a few PM's I have not replied to yet. I shall do so after work.

I thank you all for your support, it is greatly appreciated. I am holding out that Mike will come good.
 
#172
This entire thread has made me angry. Really, this guy should not be in luthery the way he does "business." To say this guy has ethics is like saying the Pope is Buddhist. Hope everything goes for the better, Alex.
 
#173
Musiclogic said:
The parts and wood are yours Alex, NOT his. They were purchased with YOUR Money. There is no way the parts and wood cost $1750, that is a load.

This bass which I did for a customer with hipshot hardware, custom wound pickups, Aguilar OBP3, Mac Ebony board, Custom wood knobs, 1/2" thick lace Burl top, wenge and purpleheart neck through cost just under $1000 in parts and materials including frets nut and finish.

full3.jpg


full2.jpg


I want to know where he spent $1750???
Click to expand...
Damn, I can't believe I forgot Mr. Musiclogic in my list of TB luthiers whom are worth mentioning! My apologies JC, this was an unforgiveable oversight...

Mr. JC Cagle everyone, the dude builds some dope shiznit and is a first class support to those approaching this hobby/profession...
 
#177
I went out on a limb and ordered a custom bass from Bud LeCompte. I did it on the strength of numerous endorsements here in TalkBass. Bud and I decided on the specs, including hard-to-find birdseye maple for the top, and he built the bass. He sent me build progress pictures every few weeks. He let me know when he was going on vacation. He was within a month of his (free) completion date ( it took some time to find the topwood). Finally, his work is first-rate and the bass exceeded not just my expectations but my hopes.

I would never have ordered a custom bass from anyone who didn't have a lot of high praise from TalkBass members. These nightmare stories are always the first to come out, so it's not hard to make a decision based on that. I wouldn't order from any builder who wasn't well known here. As for the other TBer who has one on order, OK, you're fine with the wait being over two years. What if you don't have your bass a year from now? It ain't built until it's built.
 
#179
Alex, no doubt this guy is a waste of your time. If you look at the number of hours you've burnt just in trying to get him to behave like a reasonable human being and consider it labor, you've probably bought the bass twice. Just cut your losses and move on. Best thing you can do is just a clean break. Don't communicate with him anymore. He uses so many words to say so little. I think guys like him are the reason for the saying, "speech lies conveniently between thought and action, where it often substitutes for both." How about shut up and BUILD the f-ing bass? Right?
 
#180
stepswork4me said:
Again, I'll play the bad guy. I'm not trying to be an ass but my experience with Mike has been much different so this whole deal hard for me to understand.

Alex, where you given anything like this email that discusses Mike's pricing and such? This is why I'm confused... the no contracted completetion date was an up front thing that I signed on for. I understood that if Mike's availability to work on the bass, due to whatever, was constrained that my bass would take more time. I wish you could hear my tone of voice, as it's one of confusion and not debate or blame....

> My pricing is as straight forward as it can be: one for you and one for me.
> That works out to be twice the cost of materials plus $250. With this
> pricing I also do a pay-as-I-go plan; the first payment is the shop fee of
> $250 to finalize the plans for your instrument. The next payment is for wood
> and is due before wood gets cut; about one month after the plans are
> approved. After that, the finish payment is due when the woodwork is
> complete. Finally the electronics and hardware payment is due when the
> instrument is complete; this is always the largest. My customers also have
> the option of providing me with the materials. You can usually find great
> deals on parts that you want during construction. The caveat to that is I
> request you to provide two of them; one for you and one for me. Instruments
> from me are usually one year from thought to finish. There can be delays in
> parts availability as well as my own availability to work on these so I do
> charge $5000 for a stated deadline. Surprisingly no one has yet been
> committed enough to pay for a calendar day.
Click to expand...

Sooo.. you obviously know the guy and dont live far away.Im glad your experience went better overalll you are across the river from him.. I would think a weekly visit would encourage someone to move a little.

Why dont you help a brother out and figure out whats going on. I understand not wanting to be in the middle of such things but the dude is in Australia and needs some kind of advocate over here.

Admonishing a guy that is "naive" or trustworthy is ridiculous. What Mike is doing is flat out wrong..plain and simple.
 
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