Mini basses - input needed :)

[Frederiek]

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since my last post. It may be a while to a next build log but one can always dream, right In the meantime I was busy with what I call my best work so far (and not to be surpassed) which is also the reason why I would like to build two tiny bass guitars

Reading on sub short scale basses is opening a whole new world and I have a lot of questions unanswered so I would be grateful for your ideas!

- Scale length, obviously, and tuning. I would like as short as possible without losing the bass character (like a Wing bass is more of an entirely different instrument). To me the deep end is what makes a bass (guitar) so attractive, so if it were for me I'd like EADG. What options are there in general? Any thoughts on the tradeoffs?
- Maybe the preference for tuning is different for children (as far as it even matters). Any views on this?
- Strings: what is possible without venturing into the obscure or custom made?

Thanks in advance and perhaps to be continued soon

 

[Beej]

Welcome back! Are you Dr. Frederiek now?

I have nothing great to add to the conversation around short scales at this point though, but I'm sure some others will chime in

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Welcome back, Frederiek!

Several years ago, Keith Horne and I developed the Marvin Mini-Bass. It's 4-string, 28" scale, made to fit in overhead airline compartments. And it has full deep clear bottom end. It will thunder with the big boys. It's all about the structure of the frame. Don't believe that you can't get good bottom end from a short scale length.

 

[rudy4444]

My thoughts are based on my personal preferences, and that would be 30" scale length standard tuning using LaBella Black tapewound short scale strings.

I owned an Ibanez Micro (28.6" scale length) which had no problem getting a solid E string, so going down to the 28" scale length range isn't necessarily a problem. I opted for 30" because the string selection was easier to deal with, as most manufacturer's "short scale" strings are made to accommodate the commonly available 30" scale length.

I presently own fretless and fretted 30" scale length bass guitars and love them dearly, and they are easy to transport in a standard Strat-sized gig bag.

I think there's a very good chance that I might love a 32" scale length even more, so there's a mid-scale bass build in the future for me.

Bruce's design is about as short as you can get for overall length, although you could take another inch off the end of the body if you really wanted to.
If you don't specifically need a short overall length then I think it's better to have a bit longer overall length as far as looks go.

Leo must have used 34" after experimenting a bit to find a scale length that was easy to produce a low E on. Manufacturers then pushed that number shorter until reaching a point of diminishing returns on clarity of that low E. Fender pretty much stopped at 30" and other manufacturers followed suit.

Going shorter than 34" doesn't make it more difficult to get a rumble out of the E, it makes it more difficult to get the nice upper harmonics out of the string due to the lower string tension. String gauge, of course, contributes to the total impact of scale length vs. tension, but there are practical limits to how far you can push the design parameters.

"Sub-short scale" implies to me the designs that go down to 25" and shorter. If you REALLY want to go that route then you might want to check out designs like the Kala U-bass and even shorter 17" scale Ashbory synthetic strung fretless basses of the past era.

 

[Deleted member 365158]

Welcome back, Frederiek!

Several years ago, Keith Horne and I developed the Marvin Mini-Bass. It's 4-string, 28" scale, made to fit in overhead airline compartments. And it has full deep clear bottom end. It will thunder with the big boys. It's all about the structure of the frame. Don't believe that you can't get good bottom end from a short scale length.

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Super cool,
I wish i would have known about that back in my roadie/travel days. I liked to play in my hotel room and I was on a quest for some time looking for something i could easily bring on a plane. I finally found “traveler” guitars and that bass was pretty cool for what it was but I would’ve bought one of yours for sure!!

 

[Cave Puppy]

Fender Japan are making mini Fenders.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Welcome back Frederiek, missed your builds.

 

[Manton Customs]

Here’s one I made a few years back…the Minikin! It’s 21” scale like a kala except with ordinary strings and a magnetic pickup. The strings are custom, but if you get in touch with Newtone here in the UK they are surprisingly well priced. This one is bass octave not like the Mayones or Wing which are an octave up (without the octaver). The strings are heavy but not extremely so (I have the gauge written down somewhere!) it was similar to a heavy BEAD set except tuned EADG. I went through a couple of sets before settling on the one I did…I started off heavier.

If you wanted to avoid going for custom strings you could go headless…that way you could use any scale length strings of the right gauge, like a 5 string set for drop tunings.

This bass went to a number of shows before being sold and everyone who played it was impressed/surprised (in a good way!) by the sound and playability. It was super fun to play!

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I don’t have much to add to the advice just wanted to chime in that it’s good to see @Frederiek on here again! Looking forward to whatever you post.

 

[TerribleTim68]

I know there's already some good input regarding super short scale basses. I don't have much to add, other than the fact that I own an Ibanez Mikro, which as stated earlier is a 28.6" scale length. They also make a 5 string version of it too, so there are production models out there with a low B string at 28.6" scale length.
That being said, I can tell you that we constantly have an ongoing, never-ending, unwavering conversation about string tension on the Mikro, especially the 5 stringer. There's a large amount of players who find the E string (and the B on the 5er) to be quite...floppy and loose. In most cases, the suggestion is to change the string gauge to a heavier gauge, which usually clears up the problem.
So where am I going with all this? Clearly there's no "issue" building a super short scale bass. I would suggest just paying attention to string gauge if you're worried about it. That's all I got!

 

[pcake]

micro scale? pick your poison.

the ibanez mikro and squier mini precision both use a 28.6" scale, and while they're not for everyone, they're pretty popular basses. i've owned several 4 strings (still own 2) and i owned a mikro 5 string at one time.

30" scale is the typical short scale - i've owned 2 broncos, 2 mustangs, a squier jag SS and several more 30" scale basses, and they're pretty nice. i think a 5 string would be great in this scale, but i don't recall ever seeing one.

btw, i have a 24.75" scale bass. i tune it EAGB and have to use custom strings (from newtone) as no one makes a set for such a short scale, but i'm fine with the E string although some would only be satisfied if they went up to a higher gauge.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Delighted to have @Frederiek back with us! Other than my relative who's loaned me the upright for the past 6 years having an Ashbory rubber string electric, and having seen and briefly played with someone else's Kala uBass with rubber strings, I have no useful input on the short-scale end of things.

At the risk of veering off electric, but towards instruments intended to introduce children to bass? Liutaio Mottola Lutherie Information Website The soundpost access is particularly charming.

 

[pingvuiini]

I have a custom lefty 5 string fretless 23" scale uke bass which had a very fat sound when using Pahoehoe rubber uke bass strings and piezo pickup during the initial build. Several months after delivery I was able to find a string manufacturer that was able to make 23" scale tapewounds. I sent the bass back to the maker and he installed a magnetic pickup and the new tapewounds and the bass now sounds very much like a standard scale bass.

 

[Jack Butler]

Would like to find a short scale P bass, but one that still retains the 1.75” nut width. These seem exceptionally difficult to find.

 

[Max Bogosity]

The fifth fret of a standard five string bass has EADG at 25.5” scale and sounds pretty good to me. I’d be tempted to use that as a basis.

To avoid needing unusual strings you could steal a trick from the NS Design electric upright basses. They don’t have a tailpiece like a conventional upright bass, so to accommodate standard-length strings they wrap the strings around the end of the body behind the bridge and then up the back to an anchor plate halfway up the back of the body. Traveller headless guitars and basses do something similar. That would allow you to use of the bottom four strings of a standard five string set.

 

[prowla]

Well, I've had this one lying around for a while.

 

[smart51]

I made a 22.75" scale bass a while back, just to see if it would work. You can see it here: Have I gone too far with this one?

The problem you will have is finding strings. Either you will have to put the tailpiece or machine heads up the back somewhere and loop normal sized strings over the bottom of the bass, or you'll have to find somewhere that sells custom strings. Or you make it headless. That way you can cut any strings down to size.

Have you ever played a 5 string bass by moving your hand up the neck and up one string? You could put a capo on it and play a BEADG instrument as an EADGC. Or you could take a saw to where you capo was and get a short scale bass. My 22.75" bass is a short scale bass with that done to it. To be honest, it sounds like a short scale 5er played up the neck. It is not ideal.

I'm considering entering the summer build off this year with a 25.5" scale bass. That would be like a 34" scale bass played up the neck. The extra 2.75" should improve the sound no end. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[pcake]

I made a 22.75" scale bass a while back, just to see if it would work. You can see it here: Have I gone too far with this one?

The problem you will have is finding strings. Either you will have to put the tailpiece or machine heads up the back somewhere and loop normal sized strings over the bottom of the bass, or you'll have to find somewhere that sells custom strings. Or you make it headless. That way you can cut any strings down to size.

Have you ever played a 5 string bass by moving your hand up the neck and up one string? You could put a capo on it and play a BEADG instrument as an EADGC. Or you could take a saw to where you capo was and get a short scale bass. My 22.75" bass is a short scale bass with that done to it. To be honest, it sounds like a short scale 5er played up the neck. It is not ideal.

I'm considering entering the summer build off this year with a 25.5" scale bass. That would be like a 34" scale bass played up the neck. The extra 2.75" should improve the sound no end. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

newtone makes custom bass strings in any length, so finding strings shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Jughead6]

newtone makes custom bass strings in any length, so finding strings shouldn't be a problem.

But they do not do flatwounds (at least last time I looked).

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I went the Ashbory style, including some parts, and no lack of low end. I opted for 19" scale.
Ashbory piezo bridge and pre, and of course Ashbory tuners. Much better options these days thanks to Kala and others.

My band used to refer to it as Mini-me.

To me tuning and scale length are always to be considered at the same time.