we need a formula for ... bass amps watts per cubic foot of gig space, with a variable people factor .. !?
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I agree with all the good info given so far on RMS vs peak, tube vs ss, watts vs power, DBs vs. perceived volume, ohm ratings, number/efficiency of speakers is even more important, etc etc
But also since most bass amp power sections are solid state, and most manufacturers rate watts rms at 4 ohms, even though everything else varies, you do sort of know that 600w will work in your local bar and that 15w will not. So it is possible, though not scientific, to guesstimate it that way.
Me, for small bars/clubs and even small outdoor shows I would say :
Rock : at least 10 times the wattage of the guitar head
Straightahead Jazz : 100w min
Funk : 600w min
But more is better because not pushing them much gives the cleanest sound.
But also since most bass amp power sections are solid state, and most manufacturers rate watts rms at 4 ohms, even though everything else varies, you do sort of know that 600w will work in your local bar and that 15w will not. So it is possible, though not scientific, to guesstimate it that way.
Me, for small bars/clubs and even small outdoor shows I would say :
Rock : at least 10 times the wattage of the guitar head
Straightahead Jazz : 100w min
Funk : 600w min
But more is better because not pushing them much gives the cleanest sound.
Nope - solid state. Specifically I dropped GK 1001RB-ii preamp and power amp boards into my 1001RB-i, so the only functional component left was the Mk.i transformer. I might add, I did this all with GK's blessing (had some assistance from a GK tech along the way) - the Mk-ii boards are actually the drop in repair parts for the Mk-i amps - and have some upgraded components in them.
Check out the size difference between the two toroidal transformers (Mk.i on left, Mk.ii on right):
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Yeah, but it's all solid state. If it were tube kilowatts....
OK... power transformers?
From smaller to larger you dropped 120 watts of audio power?
And the difference in distortion after the change was...?
I'm having trouble following the why and wherefore of what you are trying to accomplish here.
Just trying stuff for the sake of what happens? Nothin' wrong with that.
But is there an end game in all of this?
From larger to smaller I dropped 120 watts at 8ohm per the GK ratings for each in that setup. The difference in distortion at high volume was slight, but at least to me perceivable.
I wanted a 1001RB-i (the earlier version with smaller power transformer) with the upgraded boards - simple as that. I already had a full 1001RB-ii with the bigger transformer. The fact that it allowed me to compare the two power transformers was nothing but a byproduct.
Not hard and fast but pretty good generally:
No bass in the PA? 500 watts
Bass in the PA but no wedges?
200 watts
Bass in the PA and good wedges or IEMs? 0 watts
No bass in the PA? 500 watts
Bass in the PA but no wedges?
200 watts
Bass in the PA and good wedges or IEMs? 0 watts
OK. With the pics left to right, I assumed Before and After. Smaller to larger.
But you went larger transformer to smaller, got less power but upgraded boards, and just a bit of difference in distortion?
Less distortion because of not running as hard?
Or more distortion from less power supply capacity with smaller transformer?
Have you gigged it yet for a real world test?
Exactly this. And the classic look of the Mk.1 chassis with better reliability per the new boards. I bought a beat up early 2000s 1001RB-i specifically for this project.
The second, at least that's what I'm thinking. It's very slight - many of us like how those GK amps sound driven hard a bit, so it's not a downside for me. Besides, as I said it's pretty minor.
Haven't gigged it yet, but it's seen a few loud rehearsals, which is probably a better test as it's a more controlled environment. The results weren't surprising though, as with the lower wattage it basically puts that 1001RB-i just above a 700RB-ii in terms of power, and I already knew how that amp performed in comparison. All just slightly different flavors of good.
30 watts.
Volume has everuthing to do with your speakers and cabs (cone surface area, efficiency, and several other factors) and little or nothing to do with watts.
I get asked to turn down with my rig all the time. 30W head and one outstanding cab. Ashdown LB30 head amd Epifani UL410 cab.
Keep in mind that (roughly speaking) it takes 10X the wattage to gain one dB of volume. So a 300W head sitting in the same cab will only be 1 dB louder than my 30W head.
Check your area for a Peavey 410TVX cab. Stupid loud and theu actually sound great. You cam sometimes find them for a hundred bucks. Then get whatever used head you can afford after that.
Also, used Fender Rumble stuff should stretch your dollar to volume ratio. According to the owners of the new Rumble stuff, hitting a low open E on a P bass with tort guard through a Fender Rumble combo kills one terrorist in the Middle East and saves one starving baby in Africa from pending doom. I have not confirmed these claims.
Volume has everuthing to do with your speakers and cabs (cone surface area, efficiency, and several other factors) and little or nothing to do with watts.
I get asked to turn down with my rig all the time. 30W head and one outstanding cab. Ashdown LB30 head amd Epifani UL410 cab.
Keep in mind that (roughly speaking) it takes 10X the wattage to gain one dB of volume. So a 300W head sitting in the same cab will only be 1 dB louder than my 30W head.
Check your area for a Peavey 410TVX cab. Stupid loud and theu actually sound great. You cam sometimes find them for a hundred bucks. Then get whatever used head you can afford after that.
Also, used Fender Rumble stuff should stretch your dollar to volume ratio. According to the owners of the new Rumble stuff, hitting a low open E on a P bass with tort guard through a Fender Rumble combo kills one terrorist in the Middle East and saves one starving baby in Africa from pending doom. I have not confirmed these claims.
Fender Rumbles get good reviews, but they're not for me. I prefer the GK MB series. I just picked up the MB122 today actually.
200 watts, $419 retail price (got mine with the 15% off coupon in a no sales tax state).
Not the loudest amp I've played through but I could definitely do a gig with it no problem.
200 watts, $419 retail price (got mine with the 15% off coupon in a no sales tax state).
Not the loudest amp I've played through but I could definitely do a gig with it no problem.
Most of my 'career' I was short to the guitar players, and had to run medium amps wide open, never a good thing.
I've since learned not to show up a gun fight with a knife, so IF I were gigging now, I would be the ultimate exponent of "Great Big Amp Turned Up to 2". And in this age of relatively cheap power amps, class D heads and combos, even powered speakers that seem to all be in the 600w to 1000w range, I would definitely show up a Barrett .50 instead of a Browning take-down .22. Headroom and power to spare is the key, and distortion should only appear on request, not as a function of whipping a too-small amp for all it's worth. Especially for five-string guys, you start pumping low C's and D's on a gig with vocals-only PA, you best have a Cummins under the hood to pull you over those hills.
And I'd have multiple cabinets, even if they were single 10's or 12's. The idea of a single 15 / 1000w combo is useless to me. You could conceivably feel or hear not much if any difference in perceived volume. I've a friend who gigs with an Alembic preamp, a power amp and four of the small Acmes (the B1's), stacked vertically like a line array, and it sounds HUGE when required, in a relatively tiny footprint.
I've since learned not to show up a gun fight with a knife, so IF I were gigging now, I would be the ultimate exponent of "Great Big Amp Turned Up to 2". And in this age of relatively cheap power amps, class D heads and combos, even powered speakers that seem to all be in the 600w to 1000w range, I would definitely show up a Barrett .50 instead of a Browning take-down .22. Headroom and power to spare is the key, and distortion should only appear on request, not as a function of whipping a too-small amp for all it's worth. Especially for five-string guys, you start pumping low C's and D's on a gig with vocals-only PA, you best have a Cummins under the hood to pull you over those hills.
And I'd have multiple cabinets, even if they were single 10's or 12's. The idea of a single 15 / 1000w combo is useless to me. You could conceivably feel or hear not much if any difference in perceived volume. I've a friend who gigs with an Alembic preamp, a power amp and four of the small Acmes (the B1's), stacked vertically like a line array, and it sounds HUGE when required, in a relatively tiny footprint.
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As a bass player, power is your friend. You can't have too much. Guys that say "100 watts is plenty loud" are right if volume alone is your goal. Low power amps can not cleanly reproduce transients or deep low end. Transients are the "attack" part of the wave and they gobble up your available power quickly, as does deep bass frequencies, then your low power amp compresses...that does not make for a pro bass sound. Having enough head room is very important. I use 800 watts to drive a 4ohm 210 cab on small gigs. Its sounds clear, warm and plenty of low end at a reasonable volume. (assuming you are not playing death metal, enough for most clubs). Buy a quality amp, buy as much power as you can afford. It will be an amp you will not have to replace as your playing and career progress.
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Ric5
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EXACTLY what I had in mind OG-B. I never owned one, but I always thought it would be worth it for the visual impact alone: A real SVT rig, as envisioned, the head on top of a pair of 810 cabs. One look at that, and everyone KNOWS you're playing for keeps.
