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buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Here we go again, with the bi-weekly "matched cab police", and the inevitable reminders that driver size do not necessarily have anything to do with frequency response.
I warned ya...
I warned ya...
The cabs actually have fairly different voicing if you put your face right in front of them. The 1x12 is quite tight and clear, definitely more mid detail. The 4x10's (at least mine) are much darker and just more massive sounding. Normally I just use one or the other (1x12 or 4x10 2x) but in the spirit of proper experimentation I figured I'd test out the combination.
I run a 2x12 cab and will run a 2x10 atop it when playing live without PA support.
Sounds good to me and if your subwoofer 10's do the same then get it!
Sounds good to me and if your subwoofer 10's do the same then get it!
To be a good match, that 410 needs a smaller logo in the top corner like the 12 has.
The match police are probably off on a Fender thread some where or arguing over the subtle differences between various flats.
The match police are probably off on a Fender thread some where or arguing over the subtle differences between various flats.
Correction. They are in a Fender thread but they're busy telling me not to advise people to kill them selves, not arguing over the differences in various Flats.
Maybe there's a sensitive midrange speaker that could take the place of the tweeter in the 410?
Maybe there's a sensitive midrange speaker that could take the place of the tweeter in the 410?
I had the same concern, but the Mesa 400+ is putting out about 225 watts total in 4 ohms and when divided in half, the OP should be alright.
Awesome, glad it works. I look forward to hearing the report from a gig, to hear how it works in the band's sound stage/mix.
I did a gig with another bassist's rig, a Mesa 400+ and an old Ampeg 118, since our bands were sharing the bill. I added my Eden 112 to the mix for more definition, and it sounded pretty great. Lots of clarity and pitch definition from the 112 plus a wonderful pillowy low end from the 118. The Mesa 400+ is a glorious amplifier, which didn't hurt things at all! The note bloom / envelope was particularly pleasing.
I did a gig with another bassist's rig, a Mesa 400+ and an old Ampeg 118, since our bands were sharing the bill. I added my Eden 112 to the mix for more definition, and it sounded pretty great. Lots of clarity and pitch definition from the 112 plus a wonderful pillowy low end from the 118. The Mesa 400+ is a glorious amplifier, which didn't hurt things at all! The note bloom / envelope was particularly pleasing.
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
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- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
Comb filter effects which is actually cancelation due to 180 degree phase diffrence will cause some coloration above appro 1kHz as well there is some reduction in perceived average SPL beyond 1kHz of appro -3dB at most.
The comb filter effects are audible off axis as well as on axis versus different distance to the rig on stage.
Skinny stacking of matching cabs can reduce off axis comb filter effects but, dependend on relative hearing position to the cab system center there will still remain some horizontal dependency.
All those kinds of comb filter effects (horizontal plane and vertical plane) can't cause something like total cancelation while skinny stacking of matching drivers can't totally eliminate all kinds of comb filter effects.
To eliminate comb filter anomalies there was need to have wave front coupling of drivers which is restricted to around 800Hz - 1kHz with 10" and 12" drivers loaded in generic MI cabs.
Some designs try to elimanate comb filter effects with mirror image designed cabinets where the mids and treble is placed at the center of the stacked cabs. Personally I prefer to have mids and treble closer to ears instead on the back of my knees (or ass).
The comb filter effects are audible off axis as well as on axis versus different distance to the rig on stage.
Skinny stacking of matching cabs can reduce off axis comb filter effects but, dependend on relative hearing position to the cab system center there will still remain some horizontal dependency.
All those kinds of comb filter effects (horizontal plane and vertical plane) can't cause something like total cancelation while skinny stacking of matching drivers can't totally eliminate all kinds of comb filter effects.
To eliminate comb filter anomalies there was need to have wave front coupling of drivers which is restricted to around 800Hz - 1kHz with 10" and 12" drivers loaded in generic MI cabs.
Some designs try to elimanate comb filter effects with mirror image designed cabinets where the mids and treble is placed at the center of the stacked cabs. Personally I prefer to have mids and treble closer to ears instead on the back of my knees (or ass).
Hope this helps...I was once arrested by the "match police". So, I went straight to the source. Here is a response from Jason @ GK. Hope this helps...
I do appreciate all of the responses to the mix or match speaker configuration question. I decided to go to the source "GK and I will share my response. According to "GK", this is a non issue. As long as you do not exceed a 4 ohm load in my case. Please see below:
Dear GK,
My current setup consists of a GK 1001 RB 2 x 10 combo, and extension cabs Backline 4 x 10 and SBX II 1 x 15. My question relates to speaker cab combinations. With my current set up I can use a 6 x 10, 2 x 10 and 1 x 15 or 4 x 10 and 1 x 15. All of which I enjoy the sound variation this provides.
• I have been advised that it is not a good idea to mix and match speaker cab combinations
• Therefore using a 1 x 15 SBX II and a 4 x 10 Backline may not be a good choice according to some
• There are some purists who recommend only using matching cabs i.e. two 4 x 10 cabs @ 8 ohms to reach a 4 ohm load
• Is there any problem with mixing up these cabs as I have described
Can you please speak to this, and lay it to rest once and for all. I have seen different artists utilize different extension cab combinations. For larger venues I prefer the 1 x 15 and 4 x 10. I enjoy the sound I get from all of my GK cabs. Can you offer any technical advice ?
Answer from GK:
The only concern to have is the ohm load. The 1001RB is stable down to 4 ohms. This will accommodate the internal speakers plus one 8 ohm cab or 2 external 8 ohm cabinets. It sound like you are aware of this but I want to make sure you are.
Beyond the ohm load consideration, I would say use whatever combinations you like. There are many “experts” online that love to share their opinions. Many of these guys are informed but many are not. Some people will attempt to apply hi-fi concepts to musical instrument amplification that are either not applicable or have no real benefit outside of a controlled acoustical environment.
Thanks,
Jason
GK
I don’t claim to be an expert on much but I have seen guys obsess over inconsequential things and forget to actually play the gear. Meanwhile, there are a lot of guys out making a living using the rigs that the “experts” claim are inferior.
I am of the mindset that blending the response of multiple speakers can yield great results. One speaker may lack somewhere and another driver can compliment it in a positive way to “complete” the sound you are CREATING. If you want to play pre-recorded music and sit between two speakers in an acoustically neutral room it may make a difference I suppose. However, you are making the sound you want to hear with an instrument that is imperfect in a room that is almost always the worst possible environment acoustically. To make any nuance even more difficult to perceive, you are usually standing next to a guy who is banging on a plastic skin stretched across a wooden hoop and flattened pie tins
Let me know if I can assist in the future.
Jason
GK
I do appreciate all of the responses to the mix or match speaker configuration question. I decided to go to the source "GK and I will share my response. According to "GK", this is a non issue. As long as you do not exceed a 4 ohm load in my case. Please see below:
Dear GK,
My current setup consists of a GK 1001 RB 2 x 10 combo, and extension cabs Backline 4 x 10 and SBX II 1 x 15. My question relates to speaker cab combinations. With my current set up I can use a 6 x 10, 2 x 10 and 1 x 15 or 4 x 10 and 1 x 15. All of which I enjoy the sound variation this provides.
• I have been advised that it is not a good idea to mix and match speaker cab combinations
• Therefore using a 1 x 15 SBX II and a 4 x 10 Backline may not be a good choice according to some
• There are some purists who recommend only using matching cabs i.e. two 4 x 10 cabs @ 8 ohms to reach a 4 ohm load
• Is there any problem with mixing up these cabs as I have described
Can you please speak to this, and lay it to rest once and for all. I have seen different artists utilize different extension cab combinations. For larger venues I prefer the 1 x 15 and 4 x 10. I enjoy the sound I get from all of my GK cabs. Can you offer any technical advice ?
Answer from GK:
The only concern to have is the ohm load. The 1001RB is stable down to 4 ohms. This will accommodate the internal speakers plus one 8 ohm cab or 2 external 8 ohm cabinets. It sound like you are aware of this but I want to make sure you are.
Beyond the ohm load consideration, I would say use whatever combinations you like. There are many “experts” online that love to share their opinions. Many of these guys are informed but many are not. Some people will attempt to apply hi-fi concepts to musical instrument amplification that are either not applicable or have no real benefit outside of a controlled acoustical environment.
Thanks,
Jason
GK
I don’t claim to be an expert on much but I have seen guys obsess over inconsequential things and forget to actually play the gear. Meanwhile, there are a lot of guys out making a living using the rigs that the “experts” claim are inferior.
I am of the mindset that blending the response of multiple speakers can yield great results. One speaker may lack somewhere and another driver can compliment it in a positive way to “complete” the sound you are CREATING. If you want to play pre-recorded music and sit between two speakers in an acoustically neutral room it may make a difference I suppose. However, you are making the sound you want to hear with an instrument that is imperfect in a room that is almost always the worst possible environment acoustically. To make any nuance even more difficult to perceive, you are usually standing next to a guy who is banging on a plastic skin stretched across a wooden hoop and flattened pie tins
Let me know if I can assist in the future.
Jason
GK
I am not sure that will be of any comfort to the guys that blew up their fifteen when they couldn't hear it complaining under their 410.
If they couldn't hear their 115 farting out and sounding horrible how much tone was it contributing? Precious litte, and none at all after it blew.
I can understand your viewpoint. If someone is playing very aggressively, and at loud volume I understand that this could be an issue. As for myself, I am using 540 watts @ 4 ohms and do not have to push the envelope to achieve the deep bass and clarity I desire. It is true, we should all listen carefully to our speakers so not to push them beyond their limits.
Uh oh, Fender Rumble 500 mixed with a Peavey Headliner 115. Don't shoot!
MDBass
Supporting Member
- Nov 7, 2012
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ha!
awesome.
(still a silly pairing, with the 4x10 cranking full range you could just leave the 1x12 in the practice space, you wouldn't hear it.)
