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Mixing Bass and Kick drum: EQ technique - what do you do?

C

c2thej2theizzo

Mar 14, 2011
219
2
Milwaukee, WI
www.milwaukeejam.com
#1
hey Live Sound Techs,

Just Wondering what you all do to get the best results for mixing your bass and kick drum into a live mix?

---------------------------------------------

My band plays reggae and jam type stuff. I really like the bass to be big and boomy while the kick is tight and punchy. Steely Dan, 311 type sound.

I usually boost the bass guitar by 4 db at 70-90 Hz and drop it about -3db in the 100-140Hz and then bring it up a little again around 200 before dropping it a bit in the 300-500Hz range

I keep the way lows out of the kick mostly to prevent blowing anything but I also prefer a tight punch. usually -3db at 60 Hz, -1 db 80Hz , +6db at 100-140Hz, then classic mid scoop.
 
#3
Well, it depends on too many factors, for example: what mic are you using? where is it placed? what kind of sound are you trying to achieve: fat bottom or a clicky beater sound?

From the seetings you listed I would assume that you have a very thin sound bass drum because you're taking a lot from it's fundamental resonance Frequncies at 60Hz and 80Hz.

Start by learning how to place the mic correctly. Then, depending on what you want and the tools you have avalaible, EQ the Bass Drum first. Then when you get the sound you're looking for, start adding the Bass Guitar. One thing I usually do is leave the Low Shelf EQ flat and boost around the 120-200Hz, that usually gives me a very tight sounding bass that together with the Bass drum gives me all the Low end I want.

Another way to have the Bass Drum work with the bass guitar is using a compressor on the Bass, but with the Bassdrum as the sidechain input, so when the Drum kicks, the Bass Guitar will be reduced by 1 or 3dB.
 
#6
I been a live sound engineer for 20 years now been with bands like The judds , guns n roses , motley crue

okay the kick drum range is 10HZ to 20HZ I use the shure Beta 52A microphone which is designed for the kick drum or the bass anything above 20hz out of range of the kick drum
 
#8
Just saw Styx tonight!!! Bass drum was too loud. Other than that great mix. It seemed like the majority of the low end was the kick drum and floor tom....bass was lost in the vast mids:( Great show!!!
 
#10
vasoundman said:
I been a live sound engineer for 20 years now been with bands like The judds , guns n roses , motley crue

okay the kick drum range is 10HZ to 20HZ I use the shure Beta 52A microphone which is designed for the kick drum or the bass anything above 20hz out of range of the kick drum
Click to expand...

Huh?

10 Hz is below the range of human hearing, and below the range that most speakers can reproduce. This is wrong on so many levels. A kick drum produces a wide range of frequencies, from lows in the 80-100Hz range up to beater snap around 10 kHz.
 
#13
c2thej2theizzo said:
hey Live Sound Techs,

Just Wondering what you all do to get the best results for mixing your bass and kick drum into a live mix?

---------------------------------------------

My band plays reggae and jam type stuff. I really like the bass to be big and boomy while the kick is tight and punchy. Steely Dan, 311 type sound.

I usually boost the bass guitar by 4 db at 70-90 Hz and drop it about -3db in the 100-140Hz and then bring it up a little again around 200 before dropping it a bit in the 300-500Hz range

I keep the way lows out of the kick mostly to prevent blowing anything but I also prefer a tight punch. usually -3db at 60 Hz, -1 db 80Hz , +6db at 100-140Hz, then classic mid scoop.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a really, really bad way to EQ a bass drum. You are cutting the fundamental pitch the thing is tuned to and boosting all the ill defined boom and mud.
 
#14
For a punchy kick try gating it pre comp and then notch eq some air on top (way up top..like 2000, 4000..you want some pedal smack) with a little thump in the 125-200 or so range and don't cut the lows above say 40hz and if you go as high as 40 make sure the roll off is steep and doesn't creep up to the 60hz range

for the bass 60-80hz, fill in the gap you leave open with the kick between 200 and 500 and whatever else sounds good to you on top -
 
#15
c2thej2theizzo said:
hey Live Sound Techs,

Just Wondering what you all do to get the best results for mixing your bass and kick drum into a live mix?

---------------------------------------------

My band plays reggae and jam type stuff. I really like the bass to be big and boomy while the kick is tight and punchy. Steely Dan, 311 type sound.

I usually boost the bass guitar by 4 db at 70-90 Hz and drop it about -3db in the 100-140Hz and then bring it up a little again around 200 before dropping it a bit in the 300-500Hz range

I keep the way lows out of the kick mostly to prevent blowing anything but I also prefer a tight punch. usually -3db at 60 Hz, -1 db 80Hz , +6db at 100-140Hz, then classic mid scoop.
Click to expand...

IMO the simpler the better.

A wide cut somewhere between 300 and 600Hz, depending on your situation, can help clean up the kick sound. The frequencies around 400/500Hz can make a kick sound "boxy".

You may try cutting the very bottom end out of a kick, below 60Hz if the sound is boomy, muddy, or not tight enough. Sweep between 70Hz and 100Hz to find the right spot and then boost slightly if you need more low end, which you may not.

Wherever you boost on the kick drum, cut on the bass guitar and vice versa.

That's all stuff I hear engineers recommend a lot. Give it a shot. It may or may not work for you.
 
#16
What you boost or cut is kinda irrelevant, since it will vary widely from kick to kick and mic to mic. The average kick needs a proper kick mic which will generally already have low mids scooped to some degree, however there are mics that aren't scooped which can work well (i.e. MD421) provided you scoop the crap out of them.

Often folks are using two mics these days, one for the deep lows, another for the mallet smack, which makes sense since the scooping is achieved with proper mic positions for each respective task. If you only use one mic, I can't recommend the Audix D6 highly enough. It is the best scooped mic I've used, great deep low end that's not overly resonant like a Beta52, and by far the most condenser-like high-end I've ever heard in a dynamic kick mic. It'll do anything from jazz to metal kick with less EQ than any other mic.

Anyways, for rock kick the response I go for is solid low end, often aiming for the resonant frequency of the subwoofers to lengthen the beat slightly, virtually nothing from 120-500Hz, then a slow rise peaking at 3-4kHz to match with the snare, and not much high treble to speak of. For metal the high peak is often higher, but for rock I hate it when the kick has a higher snap than the snare. When they match it has the right feel without unduly distracting from other elements by alternating between very different sounding attacks. Metal calls for more distraction because the rest of the band puts up more competition ;)

I like bass to sound full and even on its own and not try to get the upper mids strong in the mix except with fretless. If the upper mids of fretted bass compete with the guitar then they compete with the vocals and it's a battle that ends up costing the whole mix clarity. As a bassist I know my role is a supporting one, so I mix others accordingly, and when soloing I crank it up so its nice tone stands out on its own. If the bass is a more key element of the band then obviously I give it more airtime.

My term for describing how I balance the low end of the kick and bass is to have the kick "head but not shoulders above" the bass. It has to bump out to have the desired effect, but I hate it when the bass isn't there enough to keep the sound warm and full in between. I've given up bitching about it to the techs on tour who put the kick about 20dB past the bass, a 9-12dB difference between the bass average and the kick peak is typical. Actually I've never defined the actual level difference before, and it's simple to solo the kick and bass channels to verify it plainly. Maybe I will start bitching again.
 
#17
I like kick boost 48-50 hz. Cut 200-400hz
Boost at 5-6k and 10-12k as desired for attack.

Bass cut below 80 hz, boost 100-200, cut 250-400 if needed. Prob is most live mixers don't have parametric down where you want it (80hz shelving eq) so you don't usually have precise control like I can do in my recording software.

I find bass sounds better / more defined with not so much in the subs. That way you feel the kick thump in the subs and Hear the bass more in the top cabs.

When mixing on software I have high passed the the bass as high as 100-150 hz in some cases. Usually when the bass parts are not being played on open strings/in the lowest octave. It cleans out a lot of rumble and increases a little headroom in the system.
 
#18
vasoundman said:
I been a live sound engineer for 20 years now been with bands like The judds , guns n roses , motley crue

okay the kick drum range is 10HZ to 20HZ I use the shure Beta 52A microphone which is designed for the kick drum or the bass anything above 20hz out of range of the kick drum
Click to expand...

ROFLMFAO! What a crock.

ugly_bassplayer said:
This makes no sense at all.
Click to expand...

That's because he hasn't got a clue about live sound, recorded sound, physics, human hearing, audio design, or music. However, he makes up for it by being full of it, and telling his lies in a very authoritative way.

lowfreq33 said:
Huh?

10 Hz is below the range of human hearing, and below the range that most speakers can reproduce. This is wrong on so many levels. A kick drum produces a wide range of frequencies, from lows in the 80-100Hz range up to beater snap around 10 kHz.
Click to expand...

10 kHz is a bit high for beater snap, but you're right about the bottom end. Every bass drum varies (and the drummer's tuning can vary it more), but the fundamental is somewhere between 75-110 Hz for most kick drums. I find the best definition for beater snap around 3-4 kHz, and add a little boost around 12 kHz for some "air."
 
#20
I been a live sound engineer for 20 years now been with bands like The judds , guns n roses , motley crue

okay the kick drum range is 10HZ to 20HZ I use the shure Beta 52A microphone which is designed for the kick drum or the bass anything above 20hz out of range of the kick drum
Click to expand...

If you'v ever met a sound engineer from this era, you may realize this might not be a joke...:D
 

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