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Mixing Cabinets and Phase Response.

#81
JimmyM said:
wow, what just happened here? i try to think but nothin' happens!
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You tell me. The reason I asked any questions is because I usually can with you and you don't whine AND honestly, your postion on this baffles me. Truly meaningful specs are not the norm for commercial cabs. So placing as much faith as you seem to in them, knowing that, just seems odd.

But that's okay. Never mind. I got my answer.
:Cool:
 
#85
So i ran a (newer) mesa 2x15 RR & (older) mesa RR 2x10 powered by a Mesa 400+ asissted by an alesis 3630 compressor.
This was bout 9-10 years ago. This sound was my pinnacle, & got positive comments after every gig.

Soon after I downsized to a (older) Mesa 1x15 w/ the (older) 2x10 for 5 years, it was good - but never that great.

A used (older) 1x15 RR popped up a few weeks ago and I bought it for practically nothing ($125)

So Friday I tried the 2-1x15's w/ the Mesa M2000.
It was a lot fuller and way more consistant. Friends on the floor agreed. (not to mention it was the first time gigging my rick and I had been struggling the prior weeks w/finding a suitable tone)

2 indentical 1x15's is the route I'm going from now on.
 
#86
It would be nice if bass cabs, like PA speakers were supplied with frequency graphs and polar dispersion plots. But they arent. Instead we get this stuff about 40-18k. I am supposed to beleive that every cabinet SWR makes is 40-18k and all within a couple of DB sensitivity of each other. Having tried most of the SWR cabinets I can tell you they dont all sound the same! Some (Big Ben, 12-stack) are more capable of bass output than others. Though without a frequency plot you wouldnt know that.

More to the point. I used to use matched speakers until by a chance of fate, I was only able to buy 1x15" EV and 1X15" JBL. WOW! Using dissimilar speakers covers a lot more tonal ground. When the EV is grinding away, the JBL is blooming. Between the two the bass sound was unstoppable. If only the thief who took that cabinet was as well!

It appears to me that having multiple drivers adds richness to the sound. Which also could be perceived as muddiness when it is extreme. That is after all part of the tone of the 8x10 rigs, and 8x12 guitar rigs. When you hear a marshall guitar amp through a single high wattage 12" it just isnt right.

There is also that different sized drivers not only have differing low frequency cuttoff, but they will have different upper mid peaks. Two of the smae speaker (esp 15's) will have a pronounced peak in the mid to upper-mid. This can be good or bad depending on whether it lines up with that Jazz bark or not! I like how a 12" and 15" will both handle a little differently. Havent had any notes "jumping out" problems yet. When I have in the past it is usually a function of the rooms acoustics.
 
#87
My question might be a bit more simple.

I have a Bergantino AE210 and would like to try a Berg HS210 to use together at times. I'm quite sure most here would recommend mating with the identical cab but I'm just curious how these two would work together. I already know Tom Bowlus liked the pairing.

The two cabs are quite similar but do have differences.

AE210 - Neo Drivers 7oz magnets, Rear Port, Frequency Response 40hz-15khz, 40lbs.

HS210 - Reg. Drivers 52oz magnets, Front Port, FR 44hz-15khz, 52lbs

I assume different bracing and enclosure material vary, possibly the crossover varies too ??
 
#88
Big String said:
I'm quite sure most here would recommend mating with the identical cab but I'm just curious how these two would work together.
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The two together will be louder than either alone, so it will subjectively seem better. That happens with virtually any two cabs. The question is whether one of each will sound better than two of a kind, and there's no way to know without trying it yourself, 'yourself' being critical, as you're the only one who can tell you what you like.
 
#89
billfitzmaurice said:
The two together will be louder than either alone, so it will subjectively seem better. That happens with virtually any two cabs. The question is whether one of each will sound better than two of a kind, and there's no way to know without trying it yourself, 'yourself' being critical, as you're the only one who can tell you what you like.
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Hi Bill, thanks for the reply.
Yes, me liking it is always the bottom line.
Just wanted to make sure that the differences in these two cabs won't end up causing some type of sonic 'water and oil' affect.
 
#90
Big String said:
Hi Bill, thanks for the reply.
Yes, me liking it is always the bottom line.
Just wanted to make sure that the differences in these two cabs won't end up causing some type of sonic 'water and oil' affect.
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I seriously doubt that the slight "mismatch" will be meaningful, and if your bass goes thru a PA system then it's irrelevant (assuming your stage rig doesn't drown out FOH!)
 
#91
Fuzzbass said:
I seriously doubt that the slight "mismatch" will be meaningful, and if your bass goes thru a PA system then it's irrelevant (assuming your stage rig doesn't drown out FOH!)
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Hey Ken, thanks for the input. I think I'm going to try the combo.

So you don't think the different porting (one front one rear) will be troublesome ? not sure if it's non-directional ...
 
#92
all port frequencies (lows) are non-directional. the correct term is "omnidirectional," if you want to nitpick. there is only one way to tell if your rig will work like that, and that is to play it.
 
#93
JimmyM said:
all port frequencies (lows) are non-directional. the correct term is "omnidirectional," if you want to nitpick. there is only one way to tell if your rig will work like that, and that is to play it.
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What Jimmy said! Ports could possibly be troublesome in poorly-designed bass cabinets, but we both know that's not an issue with Bergantinos. :cool:
 
#95
just to clarify, bass is more omnidirectional than mid or high freqs. Low mids, which is a lot of what perception of bass is, are more directional than not.
If you doubt me, put your ear next to the back of an SVT when it is in use, then put your ear around front.
As far as rear and front ported cabs. I used to run an old (no tweet) Eden 15" with a boogie 15". The boogie was the shelf port style while the Eden was the big circular rear port. Never had a problem with that pair of cabs. I wish I had hung on to the eden, but new gear is always more enticing. And I was thinking I might get even more volume with a 2x12. It turned out to be about the same.
 
#96
I got the HS210 today. It's pairs quite good with the AE210. Not sure which one I like on top/bottom yet.

I've had the AE210 for a while now and have preferred it standing vertically with the rear port closest to the floor.

The HS210 has the triangular front port. I stacked it on top of the AE210 and the HS's front port is the middle of the stack. Seems louder with the HS on top .. possibly the front port being higher? Hard to tell in the little practice room. fun stuff.
 
#97
ChrisB2 said:
I completely agree. But it's much more better with the 115 on top. The driver orientation is more in harmony with the player's legs and upper body, resulting in a phase convergence of sine impedence that cannot be achieved using conventional theories of matched driver sizes in matching boxes. Please refer to the following chart for the proof:

GRAPH.gif


;)
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I have my big 12-inch positioned right between that 15 incher and those 10 inchers. :hiding:
 

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