1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  
     
    TalkBass.com has been uniting the low end since 1998.  Join us! :)

Mixing Speaker Sizes...Again

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by rmayer, Jun 18, 2015.


  1. rmayer

    rmayer Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2008
    Boynton Beach, FL
    I know this has probably been discussed to death, but here we go again. I have Aguilar equipment, a DB750 and a Tone Hammer 500, plus two GS112s and a newer DB410 cab, all 8 ohm. I consider the TH and the one or two 12s my smaller rig, and the DB and the 410 my larger rig. After recently getting a new G&L LB100 (sorry about the name dropping) which I LOVE, I'm suddenly tempted to buy an Aggie DB115 cab, either to put under the 410 (used to have a SWR setup like that) or even play alone for a real old school sound. For some strange reason, I keep thinking a "P" bass needs a 15" speaker. And I keep hearing "Ain't no Mountain High Enough" playing in the back of my head? What's the general feeling out there about mixing speaker sizes, and yes, the 410 will probably sound louder because it's a more efficient cab. It would also boost the wattage of the 750, and we all know more wattage is a good thing. Does it make more sense than putting the 12s under the 410?
     
    semiprohooker likes this.
  2. Seems like most youngsters nowadays go with a 15" or 18" sub on the bottom, and other stuff on top, simply because it "looks so tough." My previous rig was a 15 sub under a 4x10, until I heard the crowd comments of "need more bass".

    Eventually, (if you're serious about your music), your ears, your gig needs, and common sense take over.. and you'll eventually wind up with matching junk. My current and final ever rig involves two fEARful cabs with 15s. I'm done experimenting.

    Others will certainly chime in here.
     
  3. rmayer

    rmayer Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2008
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Bigskybassguy, Thanks for the reply, if a bit condescending. Probably not your intention. I'm flattered being considered a "youngster" at 63. I think most of my current "junk" does match. :D As for the 15s and 18s, I've had just about every amp setup from SVT 8X10s to the early Bag End 18s bi-amped with 12s on top to Guild Thunderbass 2X15s (that one kept blowing out on every gig) and everything in between. I like Aguilar now, so I'm sticking with that brand, though the Fearful/Fearless cabs do sound awesome. After hearing Ed Friedland's Youtube video I did buy a G&L P, but I'm drawing the line at selling of the bass cabinets for a pair of Fearless 112s.
    Back on track, I was thinking of the DB115 as a stand alone cab, and also pairing it with the 410. As for needing more bass, I'm sure a second 410 would add enough, but I'm not lugging another one of those around, not that the 115 is that much lighter.
     
    wmhill likes this.
  4. iualum

    iualum

    Apr 9, 2004
    60453
    The overwhelmingly best box to put under the DB410 is another one. Three other possibilities:

    * 215. But because most 215s are 4-ohms, your 410 would need to be 4-ohms, too. And you couldn't use the TH500, only the DB750.
    * 210. An 8-ohm 210 & 4-ohm 410 could also work. Again though, your TH500 would be out of the picture.
    * 115. (As the 210, above.)

    If your 410 is 8-ohms, only another 8-ohm 410 makes real sense. It's your bread, though, spend it however you like. You wanna use something else, no worries. Go on wit yo bad self :bassist:.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  5. iualum

    iualum

    Apr 9, 2004
    60453
    The 115 as a stand-alone. Would work fine. Sure.

    The 115 paired with the 410? Would no longer be a stand-alone, simply a 410 stand (unless as mentioned, above, the 115 is 8-ohms & the 410 is 4).
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  6. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    OP there is so much information on this site about the subject. Please do a search and read through all the material.
     
  7. joel406

    joel406

    Dec 27, 2013
    Florida
    Get another 410. Or consider a 610. But the only way to go is matching sizes. The 215 rig I use to have was amazing. Now I run 2 410s. If it didn't make moving easier to have 410 cabs I would be running 810 cabs. The only rig I've ever had with mismatched size speaker was one the ran a 115 with a 118. Both in separate cabs. And that sounded like crap and both drivers were EVs.

    So consider the 610.

    Now on aside note and I apologize for getting off subject(a little).

    Is it me are the people running Guitar Center uneducated halfwits. I just recently acquired my second 410 cab. And while I was window shopping for it I spoke to a sales person at GC about getting a cab I had seen on their website. The cab was about 1500 miles away in another GC.

    I told him I already had a 410 cab and was looking for anther cab to pair with it. The first thing he suggest(cutting me off before I could finish telling him what I was looking for) was, Your looking for a 15 inch. I politely said "I'm thinking another 410". His response, "That might sound good to".

    Aren't these people supposed to be educated?

    Sorry for the hijack. But I now have a sweet sounding rig with no help whatsoever from a supposed trained GC technician.

    So consider another 410.

    Wait....

    Aww Dang...
     
    Coolhandjjl and iualum like this.
  8. strictlybass_ic

    strictlybass_ic Mediocrity is a journey Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Northern Indiana
    Assumptions....
    Aguilar DB410 is 8 ohms
    Aguilar DB 115 (proposed) is 8 ohms
    Aguilar DB750 has 750 Watts on tap at the resulting 4 ohm load.

    This means that at any point each cab splits the available watts evenly. So, just for argument at 600 Watts your 410 has 300, and your 115 has 300. So your 15" driver is being pushed with 300 watts, while each of your 10" drivers are getting around 75 a piece.

    My point?

    Many people will argue all manner of reasons against mixing drivers, but the argument that is the most simple, measurable, and rooted in fact is that you run a good chance of pushing your 115 much harder than you realize and compromising it's lifespan. The nice part about matching cabs is you know how the power distribution will shake out and, at least in theory, all your drivers should begin to struggle at about the same point. Whereas with the 410/115 scenario the 410 might distract you from the struggles of the 115 and lead to premature failure of the 115.

    Also, on a less immediate note, different speakers, in different boxes will have different response curves. The vast majority of the time this isn't a big deal, but the two differing cabs can interfere with one another in unexpected ways which sometimes results in big holes at odd frequencies. That said, I've run a 410 and 115 and it was fine (albeit run with separate amps so I could adjust the power independently). So if it's what you want to do, go for it. Just don't ignore your 115 when you really crank it up.
     
    cchorney and Ten Four One like this.
  9. strictlybass_ic

    strictlybass_ic Mediocrity is a journey Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Northern Indiana
    At the risk of sounding egotistical, the vast majority of people I have spoken with at any musical instrument store knew very little about the actual electronics. Even to the point of completely misunderstanding how cabinet impedance and amp ratings correspond. I can only imagine how many rigs have been blown as a result of a salesman incorrectly advising customers on pairing cabs and amps. That's at the fundamental level, when you get into the "deeper" science of why matching drivers, cabinets, alignment, etc matters it gets even worse. Plus, it results in a lot of beginners getting a lot of bad information that takes a long time (and possibly a ruined amp or cab) to unlearn.
     
    iualum likes this.
  10. lfmn16

    lfmn16 Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2011
    charles town, wv
    I love these, "I know this has been discussed to death" but I'm going to ask the same question again threads. The consensus is that it doesn't usually work out, but try it. Do people think there is going to be a new alternative, never thought of before?
     
  11. Thor

    Thor Moderator Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    The 2 DB12's with the 4/10 has some disadvantages. Let's ignore the mixing speaker sizes issue and focus on the power. On the DB750 manual, it appears that this is not a stereo power amp output section, it's mono (but can be slaved, etc.). So when you hook the three cabs together, the cabs will draw at a nominal total impedance of 2.6 ohms, within the DB750 design limits. Each of the cabs will receive 1/3rd of the output power.

    With a manufacturer claimed 700 watt RMS and sensitivity of 101 db for the DB410 and 300w RMS at 95db for the GS 112 each, you're really not utilizing much of the 4/10's power handling capabilities and you're running the GS112's to their potential max.

    With the DB15 (400 watts RMS 96 db) and the DB 410 in parallel running at 4 ohms total they will split the power draw, approx 375 watts per unit max. The 4/10 won't be working as hard, but it seems a better match.

    Wups, someone beat me to that.

    Well, I'd still be tempted to run the DB410 with the DB750. Then using the effects send at instrument level, not line level, run that into the input of the TH500 connected to the GS112's controlling them separately at 4 ohms.

    My wife thinks I live my life on the edge...
    I'm sorry, what did you say again?
     
    TonyP-, mat666 and jthisdell like this.
  12. iualum

    iualum

    Apr 9, 2004
    60453
    Nope. It sure ain't you :D . Rather than educated, it's much more like they're ed-ja-ma-cated :thumbsup: . And that's just the name of that tune.
     
  13. iualum

    iualum

    Apr 9, 2004
    60453
    Egotistical, schmegoistical. So what? Truth is truth. And this is.

    And yep. That's where lots of just plain wrong info comes from :confused: . Undoubtedly.
     
  14. Coolhandjjl

    Coolhandjjl Supporting Member

    Oct 13, 2010
    Appleton
    I'm really not fully satisfied with the tone of these 12's.
    I'm really not sold on the tone of that 410 either.
    But combined, through the magic of smoke and mirrors, they will be exactly what I was looking for.

    spock.
     
  15. Thor

    Thor Moderator Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    PS, I got depressed after reading about all your nice gear. In 2 hours and 19 mins, the flag goes over the yardarm, and I'll feel better right after that!
     
    SteveCS and SirMjac28 like this.
  16. buldog5151bass

    buldog5151bass Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.

    Oct 22, 2003
    Connecticut
    Silly question: When would either 4 10s or 2 12s not be enough? If it were me, I would be concentrating on quality over quantity. If you are unhappy with that sound, you would be betters spending your money on cabs you like better. For example, the GSs are good cabs, but not the best Aguilars.
     
    SirMjac28 likes this.
  17. iualum

    iualum

    Apr 9, 2004
    60453
    Yep. And Aggies don't approach the top boxes.
     
  18. rmayer

    rmayer Supporting Member

    Sep 17, 2008
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Thanks to all for the info. I think I'll keep the 12s and 10s in their own corners. It's sounding like the most efficient way to go for now. I'm fairly happy with the sound of the Aguilars, although I did hear a Bergantino 12 that had a great sound. Also, the DNA cabs sound interesting.
     
  19. Nev375

    Nev375

    Nov 2, 2010
    Missouri
    Its not in GCs interest to educate their customers or their employees. (At least THEY don't think so )

    They just want to move merchandise. Therefore the best item to fit a customers needs is an item they sell. Preferably the most expensive item or a lesser expensive one that they have a hard time getting rid of.

    If They educate their employees more than that they might start steering their customers to the most useful thing for the lowest price. Those items have the lowest profit margin. Whats worse... if the employees start thinking they know what they are doing they will want a raise.

    You have to look at the issue from the point of view of a soulless corporate ba$tard.
     
    willbassyeah, Winoman and joel406 like this.
  20. ThisBass

    ThisBass

    Aug 29, 2012
    Germany
    Thor and cfsporn like this.