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Mixing Speaker Sizes...Again

#61
JimmyM said:
You guys really need to quit complaining about being told the truth about audio amplification. Like it or not, the physics of it are known and easily proved on a repeatable basis, so it simply cannot be argued. Now it may not matter to you or some of the others who mix cabs but that's a whole different story, and it doesn't disprove the laws of audio physics by any means. Like I love my 810 cab but it beams highs right to the middle of the cab, just as the audio physics says it will. It doesn't stop me from loving it because beaming matters very little to me. And the physics of what can happen when you mix cabs may not matter to you, but that doesn't mean those problems can't exist. So instead of getting all snarky about it, maybe you should try listening and learning a little something instead. And then you can make a much more informed decision about doing it instead of busting out pics of mixed rigs (celebrity bassists often know very little about the science themselves, and just because they're famous doesn't mean they know everything) and getting all bent out of shape.
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I'm sorry, did you say not to get snarky and bent out of shape ;)
 
#62
friendlybass said:
I'm sorry, did you say not to get snarky and bent out of shape ;)
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Do as I say, not as I do.

:D

Actually, I didn't find my post snarky at all. I just get tired of people trying to disprove known facts with pictures of celebrities' rigs. But if I came off snarky, then I don't apologize.

Now THAT is snark ;)
 
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#63
JimmyM said:
Do as I say, not as I do.

:D

Actually, I didn't find my post snarky at all. I just get tired of people trying to disprove known facts with pictures of celebrities' rigs. But if I came off snarky, then I don't apologize.

Now THAT is snark ;)
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I wasn't trying to bicker, and I really don't mind the science lessons at all. My good TB buddy iualum set me straight about some of the driver myths a little while ago. And I do my best not to sound snarky or pissed off about it, but as we all on the interwebz know a lot intent disappears into the keys lol. My rig may suffer acoustic cancellation at distances and long term maybe my trusty SOB fails before my Goliath. But it works for me. It's like I said in my other post, everyone has their priorities with rigs. I always try my best to match brands because I feel like that's important. We all do things in life someone else finds abhorrent. I'd never tell a newbie to go buy a 210+118 stack sight unseen cause I know odds are it's gonna have an issue, but I'm also not gonna tell a guy his already existing rig sucks cause it's not scientifically sound. I know that's hyperbolizing what you were saying, but if our amps were even close to similar volume capabilities I'd pit my goliath 3 and son of bertha against your 810 because I think it's super awesome, and at the end of the day that's what's important to me!
I apologize for coming at you with snark Jimmy, wasn't cool and ultimately unproductive.
 
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#64
wmhill said:
mixed drivers can and do sound good, except on talkbass. They are pure evil here. They have been used with great success for years and still are. Follow YOUR ears, not the experts that say that it's not possible for them to sound good.View attachment 636850
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Just curious, what " experts " have said, " it's not possible for them to sound good" ?
 
#65
JimmyM said:
You guys really need to quit complaining about being told the truth about audio amplification. Like it or not, the physics of it are known and easily proved on a repeatable basis, so it simply cannot be argued. Now it may not matter to you or some of the others who mix cabs but that's a whole different story, and it doesn't disprove the laws of audio physics by any means. Like I love my 810 cab but it beams highs right to the middle of the cab, just as the audio physics says it will. It doesn't stop me from loving it because beaming matters very little to me. And the physics of what can happen when you mix cabs may not matter to you, but that doesn't mean those problems can't exist. So instead of getting all snarky about it, maybe you should try listening and learning a little something instead. And then you can make a much more informed decision about doing it instead of busting out pics of mixed rigs (celebrity bassists often know very little about the science themselves, and just because they're famous doesn't mean they know everything) and getting all bent out of shape.
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Listening? Learning? You're talking pure heresy. Heresy I say! :roflmao:
 
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#66
Friendly, out of all the people on here, I probably like to bicker more than the next 10 bickerers put together ;) but it's all about putting out as much truth as possible for me. Advice that isn't true does nobody any good. Doesn't mean I can't get it wrong now and then, but if I put out something false, I will be happy to stand corrected. Nothing personal with me...just trying to keep myths from becoming pseudotruths. I'm what they call "gruff but lovable" :D

Anyway, one thing that probably should be brought up in this discussion is how some manufacturers take into consideration how mixed speakers of a given line will behave with each other and maybe adjust one to suit the other better. Not all, of course, but some do. Like Greenboy says the woofers he uses have very close phase relationships so mixing them will work fine and not cause phasing. Andy Agedhorse says they'd tweak Genz Benz cabs of a given line to work together as well. So nobody's saying mixing cabs can't work. We're just saying that's a lot of money to spend if you end up with a dud combination whereas matching cabs are a sure thing.
 
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#67
JimmyM said:
Friendly, out of all the people on here, I probably like to bicker more than the next 10 bickerers put together ;) but it's all about putting out as much truth as possible for me. Advice that isn't true does nobody any good. Doesn't mean I can't get it wrong now and then, but if I put out something false, I will be happy to stand corrected. Nothing personal with me...just trying to keep myths from becoming pseudotruths. I'm what they call "gruff but lovable" :D ...
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Oh yeah? Well, I'm prepared to bicker over that statement. :)

I might be happy to stand corrected. Maybe. But I'd probably bicker over that, too. :D

I think I'm what they just call plain old "gruff." Period. :laugh: (doesn't this little pink smiley guy look just like Wally Shawn in my avatar?)
 
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#68
I mix cabs but I always recommend matching. My mixed cabs sound better biamped, demonstrating the superiority of phase coherent systems. Some manufacturers go to great lengths to produce more or less phase matched mixed combinations, others not. One manufacturer produces a mixed crossed over cab with twin 8'' mid high drivers mounted sideways wrecking the dispersion advantage of 8's and making them beam but advertises the ''superior 8'' dispersion'' which can only be worse than a vanilla 15 when sideways.There might be some chaff flying about TB but the truth comes out.
 
#70
wmhill said:
Really? I see this a couple times a month here......
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Hmm, I've been here for about nine years, and this subject has come up, almost weekly. What the " experts " have said is something like: it may work, it may not; the chances are better with matched cabs. I have never read where any one of them has said point blank, it is not possible to sound good with mixed cabs. Do you have a direct quote from one of the " experts " ?
 
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#71
wmhill said:
I used the goliath JR/S.O.B. rig for years with great results. Odd that the only folks that disliked that configuration, where here on TB, and they didn't even have to hear it to hate it :thumbsup:
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I had that exact setup, then a Goliath 410 on top. Loud! And I heard a difference with the 115.
What about when the amp company recommends cabinet combinations, like putting a 115 under a 210 or 410? Maybe they aren't getting the physics either? Or maybe for stage volume, if you're going through a larger system anyway, it doesn't matter. By the way, here's another example of a mixed rig. Brent Rusinow's Aggie setup. Oh my, looks like a 410 on top of a 115.
brentsgear.jpg
 
#72
I have never seen someone post that mixed drivers cannot or never sound good, only that it's a much safer bet that stacking identical cabs and using identical drivers is less likely to cause problems out in the house, unless appropriate crossovers are used. Since it's virtually never possible to test a rig in multiple venues before buying and listening to what it sounds like at multiple points in the venue, and since there's no advantage to ignoring the science, adhering to it makes sense, period. Ignoring it is not crazy and will not cause your genitals to explode or your pubes to catch fire, however.
Similarly, flossing one's teeth daily makes sense, and there is data to back it up, but if someone prefers not to, I'll still tell him he'd be better off doing it.
Throughout most of human existence, most people didn't floss and I'm sure they didn't miss it.....I'll bet neither Jamerson nor Jaco flossed, but I still do .
 
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#74
rmayer said:
I had that exact setup, then a Goliath 410 on top. Loud! And I heard a difference with the 115.
What about when the amp company recommends cabinet combinations, like putting a 115 under a 210 or 410? Maybe they aren't getting the physics either? Or maybe for stage volume, if you're going through a larger system anyway, it doesn't matter. By the way, here's another example of a mixed rig. Brent Rusinow's Aggie setup. Oh my, looks like a 410 on top of a 115.View attachment 637533
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Really? No ... I mean ... really?
facepalm-hand-gesture-smiley-emoticon.gif


Sheesh :laugh: .
 
#75
lomo said:
I have never seen someone post that mixed drivers cannot or never sound good, only that it's a much safer bet that stacking identical cabs and using identical drivers is less likely to cause problems out in the house...
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not even going that far! pretty much any mixed cab arrangement will be louder and bigger-sounding than either cab by itself, will draw more power out of the (solid state) amp, and will put the top cab up by the player's ears; thus the mis-matched stack can be said to be "better" than either cab by itself.

the point is only that the comparable matched cab setup will likely sound better than that for around the same money and schlep.

even then, this assumes the matched stack is of cabs you like! a cab you dig on top of one you don't will probably sound better to you than two matched cabs you don't like.
 
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#76
rmayer said:
I had that exact setup, then a Goliath 410 on top. Loud! And I heard a difference with the 115.
What about when the amp company recommends cabinet combinations, like putting a 115 under a 210 or 410? Maybe they aren't getting the physics either? Or maybe for stage volume, if you're going through a larger system anyway, it doesn't matter. By the way, here's another example of a mixed rig. Brent Rusinow's Aggie setup. Oh my, looks like a 410 on top of a 115.View attachment 637533
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Yep, I called it. You had your mind made up from the beginning and really just wanted confirmation. Which is fine by me, but why bother asking about it in the first place?
 
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