Mixing your own In Ear Monitors

[Slpbass81]

I searched a bunch of old discussions and could not find anything on this. I am currently considering switching to in ears. Here is my question. We play a bunch of different clubs with different sound guys. Is there anything I can plug into there board so I can control my own monitor mix with an iPad on stage?

Take for example the Mackie DL 1608 or say something like the Behringer Powerplay. I believe it would require all instruments and mics to go through it. But is this something where instead of that I could connect it to the sound guys board then control on stage my in ear mix?

Hopefully some of this makes sense.

 

[M Sterling]

AFAIK it will depend on what board is being used. Each one has a different app associated with it. For example Presonus uses the qmix app whereas behringer uses the x32 app.

 

[20db pad]

That sort of thing usually requires individual stations that allow each musician to control their mix - Aviom, Allen+Heath, and the like. There's CAT 5 cables involved and interfaces for mixers involved. It's usually permanent installation based or used with premiere touring bands that have the money to spend and the gear to accommodate it.

Otherwise, the house systems out there in local clubs usually don't feature mixing boards that can do that sort of stuff. Not only are they mostly analog, I'm convinced some of them run on propane.

 

[Geri O]

I searched a bunch of old discussions and could not find anything on this. I am currently considering switching to in ears. Here is my question. We play a bunch of different clubs with different sound guys. Is there anything I can plug into there board so I can control my own monitor mix with an iPad on stage?

Take for example the Mackie DL 1608 or say something like the Behringer Powerplay. I believe it would require all instruments and mics to go through it. But is this something where instead of that I could connect it to the sound guys board then control on stage my in ear mix?

Hopefully some of this makes sense.

Makes perfect sense, you done good... I used to do this for a living for 19 years, so I hope I don't make it sound too easy...

To accomplish monitor mixing as you describe, the console (board) has to be digital. That's the only way that remote mixing via iPad/Android tablet or individual mix station can be done.

If you are lucky enough to play in a venue where a digital console is used, the easiest way to accomplish this is to attach a good gigabit router (a Netgear R6300 at approx. $175, just as an example, there's several good ones) and have the musicians download the appropriate app (supplied by the console maker) to their smart device (iPhone, iPad, Android device). They can then log into the router and control their own mix.

I call this easy because it doesn't involve separate mixing stations that need a Cat5 cable run to them or the appropriate interface card attached to the mixer. The only external device in the router and your smart devices. However...(you knew this was coming....)

You have to have a willing and knowledgable house sound guy that knows how to set up the router. I say willing because it can be tricky to set up the router and then, he'll inevitably have to help you or someone get the app set up and connected to the router. That may not be feasible for various reasons.

Using the mix stations works well, but again, you have to have the interface card for the mixer and the stations. That all gets complicated pretty quickly for a one-off gig and working on the house console. Not to mention you'd have to carry many systems for all the consoles that are out there. This really isn't feasible at all, until you start carrying your own mixer. Which leads me to the optimum situation...

There's a lot or rack-mount solutions out there for digital consoles. I'll list the Behringer X18... [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

And the Behringer X18... [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

The QSC Touchmix is a good unit... Link Removed You can connect a router to theses units, or use the built-in router, in the Behringers' case and have everyone control their own mix with their smart device.

And there are other good units out there that I personally haven't used.

You can get one of these mixers and a small split snake such as this... PSX | Hardwired Passive Split snakes with Short Trunks You plug your band inputs into the snake, then one set of XLRs to your mixer and the other set to the house sound's audio snake.

This set-up will allow you to fully control your own monitor mixes and be totally independent from the house sound. Yeah, yer gonna spend some money (what, $1500, $2000?), but it puts you where you need to be.

My personal set-up is a Behringer X32 console, a split, and my own mics, mic cables, mic stands, and a couple of subsnakes. I wanted to be 100% self-sufficient on the stage, especially after a couple of bad monitor experiences, one of them with the sound company I used to work for!

MODS: I would love to see a sticky in the live sound section where we could all list our set-ups for us to point to and others to see and get an idea of how it's done and approximate cost.

I hope other folks such as s09 (Steve)will list their set-ups to give you some ideas, although I know they've done that several times, that's why I bring up the sticky idea. However, everyone here is willing to help however they can, so I"m sure you'll see some set-ups listed.

I realize that this may not be quite the answer you were hoping for, but it's not that bad to get into with your own system.

Good luck!

 

[s0c9]

To the OP -
as GeriO mentioned.. it depends on the house console. He makes great suggestions on the router hookup.. that's the best generic approach IME/IMHO. However, if it's analog you can't use that approach and will need something stage-side.

We think we have the best solution we could come up with --- albeit NOT the cheapest!
We have an X32 Producer on stage - which we use whether it's OUR PA or have a house guy mix on their PA. We have the Producer because a) it has faders we can grab, and b) the BL wasn't comfortable with the Rack version.
In both cases we mix our own IEM's using an iDevice (iPad in my case) or Android app which run thru that X32.

When it's our PA being used, we hook our cables/mics/input directly to the X32 and out to our amps/speakers.
When it's the house PA, we hook our cables/mics/input directly into their stage snake and take their snake split into our X32 mapping their input channels to ours. For example: if their kick is channel 8, we plug the ch8 split XLR into ch1 on our X32 (which is our kick channel).
This ensures we always have the same IEM mix. The channel settings on our X32 remain static for house gigs and adjust slightly for our own PA use.
NOTE: with this configuration, it makes no difference what the house console is - analog or digital. We have taken that out of the equation.

FWIW - We have not had the situation where the house has not has a snake with a split (yet) even though we know those exist, and one way to get around that is to have your own splitter snake. This allows you to get the same result (as having a house split) by connecting one split to your mixer and the other tail to the house snake inputs.

In any of these setups, you WILL need a decent router.. the 2.4Ghz spectrum is getting pretty crowded with all those cell phones about, so I recommend a dual-band (2.4/5 Ghz) router as it should "future proof" you! Note that some older devices cannot connect on the 5Ghz band, but it's far less "busy" and most newer devices will be able to connect in that band..
Also, make sure you router connection is password protected!!! You don't want some idiot hacking in and changing stuff up.
Once you band mates have that added to their apps, you won't need it again.. but DON't make it overly complex and REMEMBER it, in case you have to re-install and re-authorize the app on your device!

 

[ROGI]

one more vote for behringer xr18. my band went ampless/iem/electronic drums and that's it, we are in control of everything, as soon as we test it in a live situation, i'll post some toughts on it.

 

[two fingers]

That sort of thing usually requires individual stations that allow each musician to control their mix - Aviom, Allen+Heath, and the like. There's CAT 5 cables involved and interfaces for mixers involved. It's usually permanent installation based or used with premiere touring bands that have the money to spend and the gear to accommodate it.

Otherwise, the house systems out there in local clubs usually don't feature mixing boards that can do that sort of stuff. Not only are they mostly analog, I'm convinced some of them run on propane.

Ha! This.

(Although my theory involved diesel fuel.)

Yeah, OP, either a really complicated aftermarket system has been set up on an analog board (not likely) or it's a digital board and you'll need the proper app.

99.9999% of the time you'll be at the mercy of the monitor board guy in clubs with provided PA.

 

[ROGI]

you can go further with digital mixers, you can mix your own sound and IEMs, and sent just a foh mix to the sound engineer, and it is not expensive. but sound engineers will probably not look kindly upon your ideas

 

[Geri O]

you can go further with digital mixers, you can mix your own sound and IEMs, and sent just a foh mix to the sound engineer, and it is not expensive. but sound engineers will probably not look kindly upon your ideas

And what's crazy is that we are trying to get consistent monitors AND make the house guy's night easier. The more seasoned, experienced guys appreciate the effort.

The only thing I would recommend is that be knowledgable about your set-up and be able to make it work and not have to ask the house guy for some help getting your set-up to operate properly. We have run into this several times over the years, even with a few national acts, believe it not. I'm happy to offer help, or help when asked, but it can add stress to an already stressful situation, especially on festivals.

So how big of a jerk would I appear to be when I mention that a few times, I've showed on playing gigs and have to offer the sound guys help to get up and going?... (and didn't mind doing it...)

 

[BassGuyFL]

you can go further with digital mixers, you can mix your own sound and IEMs, and sent just a foh mix to the sound engineer, and it is not expensive. but sound engineers will probably not look kindly upon your ideas

I'm a roadie/tech for a big tribute band that does this and the soundguys all love it. They have the Behringer X32 and the P16 system and run all their own IEM mixes. They have a splitter snake and give the soundguy the tails and he only has to worry about FOH. Makes his job and the setup time a lot easier.

 

[jaeman111]

One of my bands has its own PA with a digital Presonus StudioLive 24.4.2 board, and all the band members have iPad or iPhone apps (StudioLive Remote or QMix, respectively) to provide personal monitor mixing. Another band I am in hires out FOH, and always tries to utilize FOH sound companies that offer the ability for personal monitor mixing. I have apps from Presonus, Behringer and Allen & Heath loaded on my iPad for this purpose. Previous to this we brought our own Presonus StudioLive 24.4.2 board with a splitter snake, and would give the tail to FOH. But we were finding that almost everyone was going digital, and so we stopped bringing our own and just started using companies that allowed us to tap into their setup.
As a bassist who values consistency from gig to gig with my tone, I highly recommend using a feature on the IEM that Shure calls mix mode and Sennheiser calls focus mode. The transmitters have 2 inputs which can be used for 1 stereo send or 2 mono sends. Mix mode allows you to send your own bass signal to one input of your IEM, and then mix it with your overall aux send from FOH on the other input. You wouldn't send any bass signal from the FOH send. That way, if for some reason the FOH aux send goes down during a performance, you will always be able to hear your instrument. It has saved me a couple of times.

 

[morgansterne]

having two inputs into your IEM's is great. Using one for your bass and one for the FOH send is a good idea. I used to bring a little sub mixer for a band where I play keys and rhythm guitar, but for bass I've never felt the need. One band we use the same sound guy all the time; the other we use an XR18 digital and I control my IEM feed with my phone. Working with an unfamiliar sound guy, you will definitely appreciate having a constant bass feed in the IEM's.

Some FOH engineers need to be reminded that you'll want guitar or drums in your feed, things they might not normally put into the monitor feed for a wedge user.

 

[TedH]

I've been looking into similar solutions and the Presonus 1818VSL is another option that is reasonably inexpensive ($400-500), can take a few feeds and has an iPad control for the SatgeOne DAW. I'm heavily thinking about going that route from my Yamaha MG6 personal mixer and a separate limiter.

 

[walterw]

Otherwise, the house systems out there in local clubs usually don't feature mixing boards that can do that sort of stuff. Not only are they mostly analog, I'm convinced some of them run on propane.

ha!

 

[walterw]

wait, big difference here!

you can go further with digital mixers, you can mix your own sound and IEMs, and sent just a foh mix to the sound engineer, and it is not expensive. but sound engineers will probably not look kindly upon your ideas

sending the guy your on-stage idea of the FOH mix (stereo, say) is usually a big fail; he needs to be able to control your individual channels from where he sits.

I'm a roadie/tech for a big tribute band that does this and the soundguys all love it. They have the Behringer X32 and the P16 system and run all their own IEM mixes. They have a splitter snake and give the soundguy the tails and he only has to worry about FOH. Makes his job and the setup time a lot easier.

that's sending the FOH guy all the individual channels so he can mix as he sees fit! they love this, they can mix the whole band normally, but without worrying about your monitors.

 

[walterw]

But is this something where instead of that I could connect it to the sound guys board then control on stage my in ear mix?

yeah, no.

unless you have your own entire mixing system with the whole band going through it before it even gets to the soundguy, it ain't happening.

one trick popular with TB types is little personal mixers like the rolls 351. you run your own bass and your own vocals through it and it passes them unchanged on to FOH; then get a send from somewhere, like maybe even the main mix; this lets you hear, say, the regular band mix but then add more of your own instrument and vocals, which might be enough to do the gig.

 

[ROGI]

You didnt get what i said. U can mix your and foh sound wit digital mixer

 

[walterw]

You didnt get what i said. U can mix your and foh sound wit digital mixer

oh, no doubt!

i was just emphasizing the distinction that you can't just make your own FOH mix and send it out there expecting it to be anything close to right. the guy needs to be able to mix the band himself.

 

[ROGI]

i had to be more specific, in case where you have no amps or acoustic drums, like my band. so we have amp sims/pedals and electronic drums, we mix our sound image for FOH at home, make our own IEM mixes and then just slightly adjust the EQ for the FOH based on the acoustic properties of the venue. for FOH sound guy it's like setting up sound of playback, for us it's a breeze. i know 99% of the bands will shudder in horror for I dared to mention going ampless and digital. I'm just saying it's an option. And it's much better and easier than people think.

 

[ROGI]

for normal bands, you can mix your own IEM sound and use snake to give sound guy control of the FOH sound