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Double Bass mmm... my words are tasty

Marc Piane

Marc Piane

Jun 14, 2004
4,901
153
51
Chicago
www.marcpiane.com
#1
I've been on a bit of a hot streak with my playing in my mind. Nothing can ruin that quicker than issues with your sound. Two gigs ago we were doing a cafe gig in really cramped quarters. I have raved about the K&K mic many times. If things are cramped though mics can ruin your night as it did mine. It was pretty much useless. If I got anywhere close to a usable volume I got feedback. I have the realist on my bass and I blend the two. I ended up using almost 100% pickup. When I got home a shook up a martini and took the mic off my bass.

At my gig last night I went straight into my amp (GK MBS-150). No preamp, no mic, just a 3' cable. It took a little tweaking to get the sound I wanted but I got a tone very close to what I had before.

After the gig I asked the other guys what they thought. This is a group I play with often so they are very familiar with my sound. The only person that even noticed a difference was the drummer and he liked it better. He felt like the tone was beefier. I am on the fence about it. I felt like there was a little less detail to the sound but more guts. Not having to worry about feedback no matter how loud things got was a major plus. Tack on the fact that setup was quicker and there was less stuff to carry... well let's just say I'll be leaving my mic at home for a while.

I still try to get as much acoustic tone as I can. I still try to use the amp as support. I will still have them mic the bass if we are playing through a pa.

Simplifying feels good. Anyone else had similar experiences?
 
#2
Dude,
I've been thru that run around a thousand times. Simple is good sweet easy and you finally think to yourself, "It's not ideal but it works" then you do a gig with something different...In my case I sold the Woods and got a AI Focus, then you realize that a Dynamic mic is gunna give you A LOT more volume before feedback, then you get rewired until it drives you nuts then you go back to a pick up until that edge of air you are missing starts grinding on your nerves. Then you hook up the mic again.
However, after 20 years of it I can tell you this much my man, you couldn't get me to plug a mic into a GK for the world, THat is a system that will work SOOO rarely that it just ain't worth the trouble. I had a GK for so many years, and it works just fine if you accept what it sounds like.
After years of it I sold all my accumulated stuff and bought the Focus and and a coupla 1x8's (soon to try the Wizzy 10's if they ever reach us mortals) and I sure believe in progress. The HiFi sound on small and medium gigs makes me FEEL good and play better. When I play with a PA I run the Mic thru that and the Pup thru my rig other wise I run them both mostly...and I am infinitely happier then I ever was with the GK, and my rig is just a little bigger (but a lot more expensive)
 
#3
I used to blend a piezo pickup with a mike and gave it up for much the same reasons you stated. I now use the Rev. Solo II alone (solo :) ) and have been quite happy with it.
 
#4
flatback said:
However, after 20 years of it I can tell you this much my man, you couldn't get me to plug a mic into a GK for the world, THat is a system that will work SOOO rarely that it just ain't worth the trouble.
Click to expand...

I felt like I had found a good sound with the mic and the GK. I just had to hit the 'easy' button. My bass, a small amp, 1 cable, one power cable... I feel like I have done some spring cleaning. We'll see if it lasts.
 
#6
fingers said:
I felt like I had found a good sound with the mic and the GK. I just had to hit the 'easy' button. My bass, a small amp, 1 cable, one power cable... I feel like I have done some spring cleaning. We'll see if it lasts.
Click to expand...

opps...shoulda kept my mouth shut...well hey basses are all so different anyway, you probably get a great sound, where mine would not...
 
#7
You can hear the result(mic with the GK) on the video clips on my website.

I've been through all different variations of amplifying my bass as I'm sure we all have. As soon as things start to get too complicated I scale back to the basics (bass, pickup, amp) and start building again. I feel like I get to be a bit of a gear head when I should really be focusing on playing in tune.
 
#8
I have a number of different options on my "working"
bass. Three different pickups. I can usually hear which one
is best for the room in about ten seconds of hearing each
one. Then I set it and forget it. After that, its about the music. I usually just use a Sansamp Acoustic di, but if I
really need more help, I have a Ravenlabs blender for two
pickups. Even though most of the guys I work with have
huge ears, they just don'tcare that much about the nuances
of my sound. Its more about my time feel and notes.
Sometimes I tend to over think it searching for the ultimate
tone.
 
#10
Situations like the one FUNGUS describes here are a big part of the reason I love the AI Focus 2 amps. With a pickup and a cheap dynamic mic, you have all the options: Mic alone, pickup alone, mix of both, and with a HP filter on both channels. There are a couple of rooms where I don't even bother with a mic, but for most a blend seems to sound best. I also like the "set and forget" aspect of the blend - once you know your basic EQ settings, the amp is easy to reduce down to two aspects: the mix of mic to pickup, and master volume. The rest is just fussy stuff.
 
#14
It's funny, but the highest fidelity system is often not what works best. I've never heard better reproduction of a DB that an AMT mike through an AI combo. Yet a guitarist friend says the times he's played with a bassist using that setup he couldn't hear the notes at all- just a low thud. More often than not what the other players and the audience hear, and what defines the harmony, is the upper harmonics and not the fundamental.
 
#16
Right now 'Easy' is the word. It was so refreshing to just play at a gig. The amp was an afterthought.

I drove to my gig Thursday with the piano player. He had to bring his keyboard. It took him 3 trips to get all his stuff out of the car. It took me one (I have the shoulder bag for the GK). His setup took 15 min. Mine... took the bass out of the case, the amp out of the case, plugged the amp into the wall, plugged the bass in the amp... 5 minutes later I was at the bar ordering some food.

Who knows if this whole 'spring cleaning' will stick. It sure felt good to think about the playing and not the tweaking.

I remember posting something some years back on some forum (I don't recall what one). It was a amplification question. I listed all the stuff I was using to get my sound and how other folks were doing it. Someone responded (with a very Ed response)... 'Sell all that stuff, buy a GK MB 150 and a plane ticket to NYC'.
 
#17
mje said:
It's funny, but the highest fidelity system is often not what works best. I've never heard better reproduction of a DB that an AMT mike through an AI combo. Yet a guitarist friend says the times he's played with a bassist using that setup he couldn't hear the notes at all- just a low thud. More often than not what the other players and the audience hear, and what defines the harmony, is the upper harmonics and not the fundamental.
Click to expand...

IMHO the older AI's sounded great in some rooms and awful in others. From what I gather the Series III Contras don't have as much difficuilty with this. Personally, I prefer a front firing speaker, but the new contras are very lightweight and packed with important features. YOu just cant beat them for portability with an upright.

It's always been interesting to have other players and musicans in an audience critique bass tonal quality, since everyone listens for different things. Bass is very difficult to amplify with clarity. Most of the time I think that unless the soundman is really sharp the tonal quality gets lost anyway.

In smaller clubs where we use only amps, I think we (me) get a nice sound on stage and the audience that's close up does to, but I'm not sure what the folks in the back of the room get. It depends on how loud there table conversations are.



Ric

;)
 
#18
I'm just a part-timer doing mostly local gigs, but FWIW I guess my approach varies. Sometimes right down to how I feel when it's time to pack up for the gig.

I might take my AMT or Beyer, but then just decide to leave it in the van once I know who else is on the gig.

Or I might use a mic for three sets, and then pack it up and use just a pickup for the last set, 'cuz I gotta pack up quick and make room for the next group comin' in behind me.

Sometimes, the easy button is nice & easy, and sounds fine. But I think I go through cycles just like Marc and Piro described.

I guess ultimately I like having choices & options available. Then I can just go with my internal flow (and external influences - drummer, crowd, room) on any given day / night. Like Chris said, that way you can make adjustments, even during a gig. Many gigs typically evolve for me, from nice & quiet early on, to excessive crowd noise as the night wears on.

Anyway, I agree that the other bandmates aren't nearly as picky. One drummer just kinda grinned at me one night as I was rambling on, and said "You bass players ... Always thinking about your tone." I was like ... well, yeah. I think about my tone every time I play, with or without an amp. Timbre is part of making music.
 
#19
bolo said:
Anyway, I agree that the other bandmates aren't nearly as picky. One drummer just kinda grinned at me one night as I was rambling on, and said "You bass players ... Always thinking about your tone." I was like ... well, yeah. I think about my tone every time I play, with or without an amp. Timbre is part of making music.
Click to expand...

Bolo,
IMHO Timber is one of the most important things about our bass sound. Since I'm also just a "little fish" in a medium pond, as far as gigs go, what I've come to realize is that if the tone quality is right, then everyone on the band stand gets a grove on. If they were paying me for my solos then my pay envelope would be pretty light. Folks usually call me because they like the lines I play, the time I play and the "sound of the bass." There are other things like being on time and responsible, but most anyone can get that together, hopefully. So your comments about tone are essential. Great tone and good time usually
ads up to more playing.

Ric
 
#20
Your tone is a very important thing. Not necessarily because people hire you for it (though it helps) but it makes it easier to hear yourself, play what is in your head, and let things just flow. Being fluid (i.e. not thinking too hard about it) in your playing helps you groove, choose cool notes, and hopefully get hired.

For me...
At a certain point though I think the improvements get so small that only I notice. Also sometimes too many pieces of the puzzle make me (and I'd venture to guess others too) think more about tone and how I can tweak it (so nobody will notice) instead of playing the notes that really matter to me. The couple gigs I've done since I simplified my setup have felt VERY liberating. I just plug in and play. Maybe I'm just lucky to have a setup that seems to work well like that. I only share this because, up until a few day ago, I was a vocal advocate of preamp/mic products. Thus the title of the thread. Tasty.

ps Sorry for the overuse of parenthetical statements.
 

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