Modern Amp Shopping - Negligible Differences?

[agedhorse]

My 2c worth, I'd be going lightweight cab(s) and looking for an A/B amp. Yet to find a "D" that works for me.

If you look around, you will quickly see that there are fewer and fewer that feel this way. That’s ok, you will have your choice of older technology amps for what’s quickly becoming pennies on the dollar.

I’ve had fully functional older, heavy amps that simply weren’t worth the cost of shipping I sent a whole pallet of these to the shredder/recycler and came out ahead.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Yes, the preamp section of a class D head is what gives it that baked in sound. I have both a Rumble 500 head and an Ampeg pf500 head. They don't sound anything alike but, if I use a pedal preamp (Mesa preamp-DI) into the FX return bypassing the heads pre, they sound identical.

I have an Eden WTDI that I've used for years whenever I have to use a backline amp. My personal amps are Eden and DNA, both brands founded by David Nordschow and sound is very similar. The Eden WTDI is a stompbox DI pedal with a built in Eden WT preamp. I got it originally to plug into a Peavey amp that I just couldn't get a satisfactory sound our of.

I plug my bass into the WTDI, and plug the WTDI into the effects return of whatever backline I'm being told to use. I set the EQ on my WTDI like I do on my Eden amps and lo and behold it sounds like an Eden amp. That's because the backline amp is now only delivering the power and none of the preamp signal of its own. I've done that with Peavey, GK, acoustic, MarkBass, Ampeg, and more. I can't say they actually sound identical as my Eden and DNA cabs use some exceptional custom designed and built speakers, but they sure sound like an Eden/DNA amp driving them. In SS amps, the preamp is the definitely the key to your sound. In all-tube amps you'll also get some sound or color from the power tubes besides the tubes in the preamp section.

 

[capnjagg]

$399.99, 600 watts, leaves a few more bucks to put towards your cab.

MiniMax V2 600-watt Lightweight Bass Head - Sweetwater

Definitely been interested in this amp. My rig for many years was a Series 400, and I loved everything about it but the weight. No idea if this sounds anything like that, or if Peavey is still a workhorse brand, but it’s worth heading into a shop and checking out at least.

I got the ampeg pf50t as a lighter version or my mesa boogie 400.... In your situation if you like the tone of your tech 21, maybe a high quality powered monitor is what you seek. My guitar players that use the fractal went this route and are very happy.

This is something I’ve considered for sure, but it also feels like at the price I’d have to pay for something that works for me, I may as well just get a normal rig.

This community always comes through with some solid info and advice! Happy when I get to give it, thankful when I’m on the receiving end of it. To piggyback off of what agedhorse was saying above, I feel like in the current market, it’s hard to find an A/B I’d actually be interested in. Most of the tried and true stuff has enough interest to stay in higher price ranges, and a lot of these amps are reaching an age where it’s going to be harder and harder to repair if/when something inevitably fails (and even in Class D, something like the 10+ year old Portaflex line that I may normally be interested in has me hesitant to pull the trigger due to reliability issues).

 

[Boneless]

Except that much of what you posted isn’t true.

Your lack of understanding about ”chips” is painfully obvious. IC’s are used for many different aspects of amp design, including voltage amplification, current amplification, simple filters, eq, voicing filters, compressor CV filters and log amps, limiter elements, servos, analog logic, relay drivers, detectors, etc.

Some class D power amps using ICEPower also use additional signal processing techniques, and these may not sound or feel the same (especially close to rated output).

I was deliberately keeping it simple. Of course there are lots of different ICs (..."chips" is fine really, since I was keeping it simple) used for different purposes. Of course circuit design (including PCB design) is really the most important part of the equation, much more than what ICs you use, but I stand by my post nonetheless.

 

[LiptonJigglers]

If you look around, you will quickly see that there are fewer and fewer that feel this way. That’s ok, you will have your choice of older technology amps for what’s quickly becoming pennies on the dollar.

I’ve had fully functional older, heavy amps that simply weren’t worth the cost of shipping I sent a whole pallet of these to the shredder/recycler and came out ahead.

I've looked around for many years now and I'm not seeing or hearing what you're suggesting.

What's not profitable or "worth" it to you may be different for me or others.

All those functioning working amps that could've gone to schools, given to the poor, sold at a bargain price and recouped some costs and probably still come out ahead, are now gone, destroyed, ruined because the profit margin wasn't large enough.

How truely rapacious and vile.

 

[gtirard]

How truely rapacious and vile.

I think your point of view would deserve to be told in a much more respectful way, you're not serving your cause IMO.

 

[bucephylus]

I've looked around for many years now and I'm not seeing or hearing what you're suggesting.

What's not profitable or "worth" it to you may be different for me or others.

All those functioning working amps that could've gone to schools, given to the poor, sold at a bargain price and recouped some costs and probably still come out ahead, are now gone, destroyed, ruined because the profit margin wasn't large enough.

How truely rapacious and vile.

This could be your golden opportunity. For mere shipping costs, Andy could send you his older units at no additional charge. You would be in business!

 

[Gurnmagic]

I’ve found that certain amps work better for different kinds of music. My Reiner VHF700 class D is perfect for laid back, mellower gigs when I’m not gonna dig in so hard. Whereas my ‘92 Trace AH200 rules the loud, sweaty rock gigs. Been using a Bergie ENXT 12 alot recently, sounds so good and only 29lbs.

We all wanna find that holy gear synergy. Try as many amps and speakers as you can. The sound and feel of an amp can vary substantially depending on the class and build quality of the power supply.

 

[lermgalieu]

How truely rapacious and vile.

Give me a break

 

[Koshchei]

Hey all, been on the hunt for a lighter rig, fairly interested in a class D amp head, and for context, mostly just playing post punk/indie rock/emo type stuff (think Joy Division, Weezer, Yuck, Pedro the Lion). After hearing demo after demo after demo, it seems to me like the differences are pretty negligible, yeah (or at least beneath a certain price point)? I mean sure, and Ampeg and a GK will have a certain “baked in” character, but in a mix, especially with a preamp pedal before it (Tech 21 YYZ), is it going to make much difference at all deciding between Ampeg/Fender/GK/Hartke/TC/MarkBass?

It just seems like there’s a point of price/loudness/reliability where it’s “good enough,” especially in a mix. I’m sure plenty of folks will chime in to say “just spend a little more and drop the money on X amp,” but I’d like to stay below $500 new/used on a head if I can. I don’t mind a class A/B either, but it seems like most everything I’d be interested in these days has gone up in price to the point where I may as well grab a class D.

As for a cab/cabs, that to me seems to be where it’s worth it to spend a little more to get something light/loud/reliable. Love 410s (a 210 stack would be cool), also love a single 15 setup, especially if I can get away with just lugging one cab. This would be for smaller local venues (basements, bars/restaurants/small shops, under 300 capacity venues, etc).

Any wisdom and guidance for my indecisive self would be well appreciated.

The Traynor SB500 is inexpensive, sounds great, is made in Canada, and is built like a tank.

 

[Jim Nazium]

...It just seems like there’s a point of price/loudness/reliability where it’s “good enough,” especially in a mix.

I completely agree.

 

[wiscoaster]

Sorry, I disagree with the OP's premise. I have multiple combo amps and amp heads now sitting stacked and unused in a spare room that I went through before I discovered a head and cab combo that was "just right" for me and my situation. You can't tell from in-store demos.

 

[bassfreakah]

This is a great time for bass gear in general!!
Try before you buy and enjoy the ride.
So much great stuff for us bottom dwellers these days.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

All those functioning working amps that could've gone to schools, given to the poor, sold at a bargain price and recouped some costs and probably still come out ahead, are now gone, destroyed, ruined because the profit margin wasn't large enough.

How truely rapacious and vile.

Virtue signaling is not a virtue. Nor does it make you a good person.

 

[ole Jason]

The amp can make a big difference if you want OD/distortion from the head itself since everyone has a different take on that. If you're playing with a normal bass tone in a guitar dominant mix I'd agree there isn't a huge difference between manufacturers in how the bass tone will be perceived in the context of a mix. Just find something with the power you need and an EQ implementation you like to work with and you'll be fine.

You could take this a step further and say the cab also doesn't really matter all that much assuming you're running direct into a PA that isn't relying on your stage volume for support.

 

[capnjagg]

I don’t mean to diminish anyone’s process or lessen anyone’s perfect setup here in any way, because most all of us are really just trying to find that tone in our head. For me though, when I hear my favorite bassists, and I see one playing through a Hartke, another through an Orange, a couple more through GKs, Fenders, Ampegs, Darkglass, etc., and they all have outstanding tone in line with what I’m trying to achieve, it really makes me feel like I’m overthinking it, and to not get too caught up on what it says on the front of the amp. The best advice in this thread for me for sure has been probably the most obvious one that I’ve overlooked in my overthinking, which is to not shop with my head/my eyes, but to go to some shops and shop with my ears. And the second best advice was the affirmation of yes, spend money on a solid cab(s). Thanks to all of you who chipped in with your advice and personal experience, I’m looking forward to a new rig that’s perfect in tone and weight.

 

[Marko 1]

Having played through a variety of heads and cabs, it doesn't even matter to me if they sound different from each other,

I can enjoy the differences and still find a tone that's suitable for a mix.

Maybe because I didn't grow up on or listening to bass, and having started relatively late in life, I've never developed a "tone in my head" so to speak,

which makes life easier, I guess.

 

[agedhorse]

I've looked around for many years now and I'm not seeing or hearing what you're suggesting.

What's not profitable or "worth" it to you may be different for me or others.

All those functioning working amps that could've gone to schools, given to the poor, sold at a bargain price and recouped some costs and probably still come out ahead, are now gone, destroyed, ruined because the profit margin wasn't large enough.

How truely rapacious and vile.

I did give a couple away but after that there were no local takers (including churches and schools). They simply were worth more as scrap than the cost of shipping justified. Shipping an amp worth $50 that costs $60+ to ship makes no sense.

This could be your golden opportunity. For mere shipping costs, Andy could send you his older units at no additional charge. You would be in business!

I have nothing old school worth the cost of shipping to Australia. It would have cost more to ship than the amps were worth.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

I use a Hartke HD 210 cab. Nice, loud, punchy, nice lows. Manageable weight.

 

[mikecd1]

Some class D power amps using ICEPower also use additional signal processing techniques, and these may not sound or feel the same (especially close to rated output).

$500 bucks doesn't get you much of a head and cab rig these days so I'd start by replacing your head with a used Mesa Subway or a used Mesa Subway or SWR Golight cab if you can find one (various speaker sizes). The power and the punch of the Mesa are great and deliver what the specs say, the SWR have great tone as well. After some more gigs add the other piece unless one of your bandmates can help you finance them together and pay them back. GLWTS and let us know what you decide.