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Modes
- Thread starter pecBass
- Start date
I think OP has a good idea. How else to know what the different scales feel like but to play with them?
Then try it differently next. Like all mixolydian, then all as just chord tones with chromatic walks to the change. Which melodies fit which style? That's learning.
Nothing wrong with noodling at the house at practice time.
Then try it differently next. Like all mixolydian, then all as just chord tones with chromatic walks to the change. Which melodies fit which style? That's learning.
Nothing wrong with noodling at the house at practice time.
I definitely agree with your first point.
But for the "G mixolydian" example - isn't this just a fancy way of saying the song is probably in the key of C, and that the G is the V chord, hence the F natural. Even if it is "G centric".
Of course given this is a hypothetical, it's possible it's in F or something else entirely - but I think you see my point. It strikes me as odd to think in terms of A Aeolian if it's really just a song in the key of C with lots of vi chords.
If a song that is primarily G, F, and C chords is strongly "G centric" in the sense that it wants to resolve to G (as compared to just featuring a lot of G), I would say it is G mixolydian, not C major with a lot of V chord, and not G major with outside notes.
It might seem like semantics, but if it helps to see where I'm coming from would you say that a song in A minor is really just in C major but featuring the minor vi chord a lot? I definitely wouldn't. I know you mentioned A Aeolian, but would it bother you to call that A minor? Such a tune may not even use any C chords.
A famous example is "With A Little Help From My Friends" by the Beatles. The chorus goes Dmaj-Amaj-Emaj. But despite the D natural, this song is a tonal composition in the key of E Major and is notated with 4 sharps. If you are thinking "W.A.L.H.F.M.F. is in the key of E Mixolydian with 3 sharps" then you might be caught off guard by the D# in the Bmaj chord in the first line ("What would you do..."). It's not a modal composition, it's not in the key of E Mixolydian, and it's definitely not in the key of A Major.
bVII/IV/I (or IV/IV "four of four" as some call it) is a very common progression, especially in the chorus sections of rock tunes. A worthy addition to any player's musical vocabulary.
Music does not have to be strictly "diatonic" to be described as "tonal." You can have chord tones outside the key signature (for example the frequent F naturals and Bb's in a G Blues progression) whilst still maintaining a strong major key tonality.
I thought of a famous example of this type of chord progression: "Werewolves of London" by Warren Zevon. The chord progression is simply D, C, G over and over again. D, C, G, D, C, G.
"Werewolves of London" is often notated in the key of D Major with 2 sharps. An accidental sign is used for all of the C naturals. This method uses slightly more ink than a 1 sharp key signature, but it is popular because it more accurately conveys the D Major tonality.
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Yep, exactly.
This chord progression D C G is the same as another song hotly debated around here (that shall not be named) that's very D-centric. Same concept outlined above applies there.
That's an interesting example.To my ear, Werewolves sounds more like it resolves to the G chord and feels like a G major tonality. From memory the recording fades out, but if I were to play it live I think I'd end it on a G chord. Though it's not really strongly G, I can see the argument for D.
Contrast with Sweet Home Alabama, also D-C-G repeated, but to my ear it has a fairly strong D tonality, and I'd end it on a D (is that what Lynyrd Skynyrd do live? I'm not sure). Commercially available sheet music notates that song with one sharp.
What is the normal way to notate songs that aren't Ionian or Aeolian?
Not trying to derail the thread but there have been a few comments against "noodling" that I have a different perspective on. I agree that in performance it's inappropriate & even disrespectful. However in practice it can serve a purpose IF you're listening & paying attention while you noodle. You may stumble upon something that peaks your interest & cause you to think about what you just played, why it catches your ear, what kind of feeling it evokes in you or others...IOW MINDLESSLY noodling isn't going to get you far beyond just playing patterns. Noodling mindfully might lead you somewhere if you don't stop at the noodling part.
I often find that after playing basic maintenance exercises for a little while I start to hear lines, changes, often melodies that, if I pursue them, become actual music. Maybe it's ADD but frequently I find taking my analytical mind out of the equation is helpful.
I often find that after playing basic maintenance exercises for a little while I start to hear lines, changes, often melodies that, if I pursue them, become actual music. Maybe it's ADD but frequently I find taking my analytical mind out of the equation is helpful.
There is no normal way. Key signatures are up to the writer—they are just notational conventions, that can minimize the number of accidentals the notator must use.
If there is a strong key center, the key signature may reflect that too, forcing the notator to use accidentals for all notes outside the key. Heck, I've seen notators use a blank key signature, and all accidentals throughout.
You will encounter various notation methods ("Werewolves of London" written with either 1 sharp or 2 sharps for example). So it's tough to say what's "normal."
What I was taught is the "university-correct" method (and I might have been taught wrong) is that there are 30 commonly used key signatures (15 major and 15 minor) and you should generally use one of those 30 best communicates the tonality, except in the rare cases a song is not tonal.
For example, I was trained to use a C Major key signature (no sharps or flats) for C Major, C Major Pentatonic, C Major blues, C Lydian, C Mixolydian, etc. and likewise I would use a C Minor key signature (3 flats) for C Minor, C Dorian, C Phrygian, C melodic minor, C harmonic minor, etc.
Specifically, it is the 3rd that determines whether a major key or minor key signature is appropriate, in most cases.
Another interesting way to think about this stuff that I find helpful is to think of each mode in terms of two stacked tetrachords. This article explains how to do this in terms of four types of tetrachords, with each mode comprising a particular combination of tetrachord types. It also demonstrates four different fingering patterns for each tetrachord type -- yielding 4x4=16 fingering patterns for each mode:
Lesson: Scale Patterns from Tetrachord Combinations
Lesson: Scale Patterns from Tetrachord Combinations
Pretty much play chordal tones, passing notes and walking lines between chords. Looking to grow
Cool, check out the link, watch it a few times before you pick up a bass, a pen and paper is handy as well.
Also Mark is on this forum, well used to be, but find him on FB and social media if you have any questions...his lessons on Modes are a great introduction, also check out the discussion on Talkbass, there are lots of thread you can view if you use the search button.
Good luck with it all...remember is more theory based to start with...using them comes later.
I know you were agreeing with me, but...just checking what the melody notes are isn't enough. That's kind of the point of this thread: the same notes that are used in the G major scale are in the E (natural) minor scale, D mixolydian scale, C lydian, etc., so just matching the notes from the sheet music to a scale isn't going to tell you the mode used in the song.
its about what the musical center of a song is. if a song is major and lands in the key of g, it's pretty obviously not e minor even if its the same notes. music is more than pitches, its harmonic and melody motion and direction. tradional "modal" music is all about subverting those movements with the use of modes a la john coltrane or miles davis.
