Moogerfoogerooverkill

[Ben Clarke]

yes there is, just give it time.

So you can (by eye and without looking like an amateur onstage) set all the knobs in just the right place? I'm thinking it would be less stressful and more effective to step on a pedal to make fine adjustments while you're actually hearing the effect, especially w/ the envelope amount.

The Moog offers such a wide range of adjustment for each parameter that I find it unacceptable to just set a knob "around 8" and get what I'm after.


Man, I didn't think you guys would think I was giving up on the thing. I was just expressing the limitations of it without full control.

 

[Ben Clarke]

So I got the other 3 Eps in yeaterday and spent a couple hours with the rig. It's much more what I had in mind. I can dial ina subtle effect and adjust the mix to mostly wet, or I can do something really out there and just bring it in a hair.

I honestly don't know which control I would go without if I had to eliminate one. Thankfuly, it's not an issue. Real estate might be....

 

[Ben Clarke]

I'm still looking forward to hearing it throught the full range horn rig, btw.

 

[fretlessrock]

Feel free to share your base settings and which expression pedal is getting the most use. I had time to try controlling sensitivity and resonance, IIRC. And as a gear hound I insist that you share a pic of the 101 with all 4 expression pedals!

Are you having any of the reported noise/bypass issues? I wouldn't think that the Moog products would need a true bypass mod.

 

[Ben Clarke]

Yeah, I'll definitely post back once I get to use it through my live set up. It wasn't noisy through the recording set up. The tone seemed fine, but I wasn't listening at levels loud enough to really be critical of the finer points of tone.

As far as settings, I seemed to like the resonance set just below the point of self-oscillation for the most part. I likes to dial in a pretty over-the-top effect, then reduce the mix so it's not so blatant. The frequency really depends on the part being played & its context in the song, as does the envelope amount setting. That's why I can't believe anyone really being staisfied with it without full control implementation.

The parameters offer such a wide range of control & are quite sensitive. Even switching pickups on my Stingray5 required a tweak of the envelope amount pedal.

 

[Ben Clarke]

Oh- forgot to mention that I really need to make some kind of pedal board now... super! I'm holding off until I determine whether I want the MF-101 itself on the floor or not. If I can get acceptable uneffected tone by simply backing the Mix control to fully dry, I'll probably get it up out of the way and just have a clean set up of the 4 EPs.

BTW, the pedal I seem to ride the most is the Amount.

Also, I'm considering using a bit of compression in front of the MF. I'll see how it affects the envelope tracking.

 

[squarewave]

Ben- I just want to say thanks for all of the detailed info.

I have an MF101, and am hoping to add pedals soon. Has it been concluded that the only compatible pedal, without modification, is the MF EP pedal?

 

[Ben Clarke]

No, I'm sure there are other compatible pedals for the control voltages. I'm just not 100% sure which ones are. The Moog EP-1 are cheap, but then again they're cheap...

Trouble is that if you got 4 good ones, you could easily have $3-400 in expression pedals sitting there. Keep in mind that there's no audio path in them, so cheap construction won't affect the sound a bit. What you're looking for is functional & durable. They seem to be functional, but durability is questionable. I could envision DIYing one as cheap or cheaper than anything out there.

 

[Ben Clarke]

You might want to contact Moog or you dealer about the EPs and alternatives. If you don't have a good dealer, try Sweetwater. They sell the MFs and other expression pedals, and you'll get good straight advice.

 

[wurmhole]

I've had one of these for a few years and have some input.

I use one EP-1 and always use it to controll the cutoff. I find that I can set everything else before the gig and leave it alone. By adjusting just the cutoff I can compensate for the tone adjustment that I've made on my bass to achieve a good sound on stage.

While the EP-1 pedals do seem cheaply made, I like their geometry for use while standing. I find that other expression pedals work better for keys players that are sitting while the MF pedals are more comfortable to use standing.

Having the signal run through the "drive" circuit all the time is a drag. I really prefer the clean sound of my rig better if i bypass the MF completely. However, I need to have the drive knob up pretty high to get the performance from the envelope follower that I want and when I use a simple A/B switch as a true bypass my bass alone doesn't have the gain to match the pedal and my gain structure gets shot to h***.

That being said I kind of like the overdrive sound I can get from the drive circuit being set rather high and use that on occasion.

 

[Ben Clarke]

Good comments there.

Barcus-Berry makes a nice little clean booster that can run off a 9V or adapter. I think you can get 24dB or so, and it really sounds neutral. Might help you with the level matching issues you've got. Either that, or you could pad down the output of the MF with a simple in-line pad.

 

[fretlessrock]

Also, I'm considering using a bit of compression in front of the MF. I'll see how it affects the envelope tracking.

Ben, I can tell ya right off that compressing before the 101 will totally change the way it acts. Compression by definition modifies the signal's volume envelope, specifically by reducing gain as the envelope rises. The result will be that you will limit how "open" you can make the filter, or you will be setting the threshold lower and playing lighter to get the filter to open and close. Also, if you are tweaking a compressor to the point where you can hear it working, then you might be using too much.

*After* the 101 could be useful to keep the dynamic range of the processed signal in line. Still, I'd keep it light. The idea would be to knock down some of the spikes that you might get when the filter is really "quacking". It can also be used to get the gain manipulation resuts that you were thinking of with the booster or pad approach.

 

[Ben Clarke]

That was the goal I had in mind putting a compressor in front of the MF - to change the the curve of the envelope & make it less sensitive in effect. Thanks for the caveat, though.

The gain issues were not mine, just suggestions for wurmhole to integrate better with the drive setting he likes.

 

[Ben Clarke]

Well, well, well.

I finally got this thing into action over the weekend after some scheduling issues.

Let's put it this way; I've got more $$ into this effect than my amp, and I'm really fine with that!!

I satnd by my inital judgement that the only way to Fooger is to go all-out with the CV pedals. I can see getting by without one or two, but I wouldn't want to for the modest cost increase.

I think the most fun I had at this (bar blues) band's practices was Friday night when I set it to self oscillate around a low B-flat and just kinda tapped the strings lightly while manipulating the Amount pedal for various effects and occasionally harmonized quietly. Sounded a bit like a Bjork demo, and two of the guys looked like they wanted to fire me, but the other guy looked like he wanted to quit and form another band with me...