More windings around the post better sound?

[gimmeagig]

I have a 74 Jazz bass EMGs w ABM brass bridge. Should be a tone monster but compared to some of my other active J basses it is kind of lifeless. I recycle my D'Addario prosteels in tubes with denatured alcohol.That works on all my other basses. But not so much on the Fender. I have been cutting the strings just long enough so that they don't slip. I put on an brand new set that way a couple of weeks ago. The bass didn't really come to life. I was disappointed.So tonight I put a new set on the 74 Jazz, made sure I didn't twist the strings as I tightened them and did 2 1/2 to 3 windings around the posts. I'm not sure if I'm imagining things but it seems like the bass sounds more lively this way. What do you guys think do more windings have an effect on the way a bass sounds?

 

[GTHintz]

I think that having a couple windings makes everything more stable and aside from making it stay in tune better I could see how it would give you some better string response especially on open notes.

 

[gimmeagig]

I really noticed it on the low E. I had the Low E cut pretty short because I have a two stage D-tuner on that string. I just wanted to have a straight shot across the nut with not much bend so the string would go to D or C without jamming up in the slot and that worked. But maybe there are downsides to that. I might install a Graph tech nut to help with that instead...

 

[fretlessman71]

The two things with string installation that I have found to be tone killers are:

1. Using a string that doesn't taper before it gets to the peg (such as a B string on a five-a-side headstock)
2. Failing to bend the string hard (90º angle) before cutting to size

Is it possible that one or both of the above occurred here as well?

Regarding the nut, get a pencil and color in the nut slot. That's all the lube you need there, even with an Xtender Key.

 

[pepj]

3 winds and anchored through the peg.

 

[Fernando Costa]

4 things to consider:

1 - Recycled strings never worked for me, but I use nickels.

2 - The lower the string is on the post, the more pressure on the nut, this can improve the sound...

3 - ... But more windings in the post, more chance the string will get out of tune.

4 - Bend 90º the string before cutting.

I think the best solution is to use tuners with a "flute" post and 2 windings.

Hipshots "Flute":

 

[Zooberwerx]

I really noticed it on the low E. I had the Low E cut pretty short because I have a two stage D-tuner on that string. I just wanted to have a straight shot across the nut with not much bend so the string would go to D or C without jamming up in the slot and that worked. But maybe there are downsides to that. I might install a Graph tech nut to help with that instead...

This can be problematic. The string needs to see a well-defined break angle and the larger strings are particularly resistant. A properly cut / shaped E string slot is in order.

Riis

 

[Zooberwerx]

4 things to consider:

1 - Recycled strings never worked for me, but I use nickels.

2 - The lower the string is on the post, the more pressure on the nut, this can improve the sound...

3 - ... But more windings in the post, more chance the string will get out of tune.

4 - Bend 90º the string before cutting.

I think the best solution is to use tuners with a "flute" post and 2 windings.

Hipshots "Flute":

View attachment 4509089 View attachment 4509090

That A string is kicking me. I don't care for machine head posts that "force" the wraps into position as I figured it out on my own. For that fact, the wraps should be "kissing the deck". The almost-hourglass shape and full-thickness diameter at the base makes that nearly impossible. I'd add a single A string retainer just to satisfy my OCD.

@Turnaround for a second opinion.

Riis

 

[yodedude2]

^^ riis, this is my prefernce as well.

o.p., have you any pics of your 'break angle' for your 'e' string? (if it was too high on the headstock side of the nut, i could see that being an issue in tonal response. also, there could be a nut issue ... no one likes those... )

 

[Dirk Diggler]

The more windings, the less likely to stay in tune.

Sperzel tuners use no wraps.

 

[JRA]

But more windings in the post, more chance the string will get out of tune.

The more windings, the less likely to stay in tune.

that hasn't been my experience at all, but i might be lucky with some things. i don't cut strings* and i don't have tuning issues. a few times in all my years one string or another 'slipped' out of tune, one time, immediately after installation. solution = retune. done! (FWIW: i play fretless so i'm very keen to have no tuning issues...ever.)

per the OP: i also think the break angle past the nut could be playing a role in your experience. more windings might help you lower the string on the post, and of course: a string tree would probably clear things up for you (per @Zooberwerx).


* i've cut exceptionally long E strings enough to make them wrap like the others

 

[LetItGrowTone]

The more windings, the less likely to stay in tune.

Probably true. Unfortunate that the slots on Hipshots end so high up.

 

[GodPlayedBass]

Yeah with 2 to 3 wraps you give the string more tension and stability. A good bass tech will tell you always do 2 to 3.

 

[Geri O]

Probably true. Unfortunate that the slots on Hipshots end so high up.

This is my only beef with the Hipshot UltraLites came come as standard equipment on the Mike Lull basses. The slot is up high on the rather tall post, making for ugly wraps around the post, which kinda sets off a little OCD in me.

So, fully knowing the potential for problems with too many windings around the post, I starting cutting for 4-5 windings, which does look a little neater. So far, I've beaten the odds with the tuning stability and and the basses do stay in tune. I'm fully prepared to go back to the ugly-looking 3-4 windings if that changes….

 

[LetItGrowTone]

@Geri O, thanks.
Do have a dremel tool, but I'm guessing that the posts are hollow and that trying to mod them wouldn't go well.

 

[michael_t]

What do you guys think do more windings have an effect on the way a bass sounds?

No, not in my experience.

The important thing is there are enough wraps around the post (3-4 wraps) so the last wrap coming off of the post toward the nut is as close to the bottom as possible in order to create enough break angle at the nut for sufficient downward pressure. This is particularly important with the A string on a Fender-style headstock.

 

[Zooberwerx]

The more windings, the less likely to stay in tune.

Sperzel tuners use no wraps.

This is partly true but not for the reasons some people assume. Minimizing the afterlengths (any portion of the string NOT in the speaking / vibrating path) decreases compliance (distention properties) of the entire string structure. This is best exemplified by the the better guitar clamping tremolo systems (Kahler? Floyd Rose?) and my buddy's Keisel Sperzel equipped guitar.

I always add a couple of wraps on a Sperzel post just to create the desired downward force / break angle:

 

[Fernando Costa]

That A string is kicking me. I don't care for machine head posts that "force" the wraps into position as I figured it out on my own. For that fact, the wraps should be "kissing the deck". The almost-hourglass shape and full-thickness diameter at the base makes that nearly impossible. I'd add a single A string retainer just to satisfy my OCD.

@Turnaround for a second opinion.

Riis

Yes, I agree, "...the wraps should be "kissing the deck...", but on this particular tuner the strings are as low as possible, and are "flute post" Hipshots, the only replacement model without having to drill new holes. The A string is always a problem with tuners that use bushings. The string retainer should also lower this string but the result is perfect, all my basses are stringed like this and never out of tune.

that hasn't been my experience at all, but i might be lucky with some things. i don't cut strings* and i don't have tuning issues. a few times in all my years one string or another 'slipped' out of tune, one time, immediately after installation. solution = retune. done! (FWIW: i play fretless so i'm very keen to have no tuning issues...ever.)

per the OP: i also think the break angle past the nut could be playing a role in your experience. more windings might help you lower the string on the post, and of course: a string tree would probably clear things up for you (per @Zooberwerx).

* i've cut exceptionally long E strings enough to make them wrap like the others

Everyone has different experiences, it's normal. My basses don't go out of tune. What "anchors" the string is the part that penetrates the hole in the post. It should be as long as possible, with a 90º angle. For me, mechanical logic says that the larger the part of the string between the nut and the tuners, wound or not, the greater the chance that this part will flex and the instrument will go out of tune, so the strings must be cut. The Floyd Rose system has proven this decades ago. I, who am also a guitarist, could live this experience, the difference is huge, but as I said, each case is different, each instrument is different, each string or tuners behaves differently. This is just the method I use, it looks better.

 

[JRA]

...it looks better.

i figure that most folks who cut their strings do it for this reason alone: it looks better (to them), or it has a 'certain look' that matches what they see others doing. actually, most folks just do it that way because someone else told them "how it should be done." one advantage of not cutting is that if the strings aren't working on one ax they retain all the length needed to try on a different ax (e.g., when the headstocks might be different).

i would certainly agree that most of us tend to do things the way in which we've had the least amount of problems over many repetitions of the task at hand.

i'm not trying to sell my method or experience --- just reporting it! the OP's issues may have nothing to do with "how many windings" or "what it looks like."

 

[FirewalZ]

I still struggle with cutting them to just the right length, not too much or too little……got a bit easier after I figured out I can use the old string to quickly measure the new one
My method is as follows: 1) crimp the strings before the cut point, 2) try to get 2-3 full wraps around the tuning post, 3) top to bottom making sure the wrapping are pushed down as far as possible. This maximizes the break angle…I've had good luck with this approach, although the ultra small tuning posts irate still problematic for me