More windings around the post better sound?

[J33]

Wow, thank you for that. There is a lot of information in you post. Some of it is new for me and I have been playing bass for close to 40 years.I'll print this out

No problem. One thing I did forget to mention is get some of this stuff: https://reverb.com/item/40372188-lizard-spit-ultimate-fret-polishing-system.

Keeping the frets clean will afford you the best crisp contact with a string and this little kit is great for self polishing and getting rid of gunk. You can also get a bottled liquid version of this...but the all-in-one little pads are great.

 

[fretlessman71]

So again where do you cut the string after bending it 90 degrees? I have always just stuck the end into the hole that's in the center of the slot of the post and then bent the string around in the direction where it is supposed to go.That's more that a 90 degree bend. Or do I actually need to bend the string 90 degrees and then cut it less than a mm behind the bend, so it can still fit into the hole? I'm confused about that.

You bend it, then cut the string past the bend, so that there's about 3/4" of a "stub" after the bend. This goes in the hole. It does require you to measure first. How far to measure? Depends on your peg, and your preference.

 

[fretlessman71]

Here's a good formula: if you want a single wrap of string, the bend needs to be 3 "post diameters" past the post. Want two wraps? Bend it 6 post diameters past.

 

[tindrum]

3 winds and anchored through the peg.

I've done it this way for over 30 years. Like Billy D Williams said about Colt 45 - it works every time!

 

[Geri O]

I've been measuring the string past the tuner post with 4 fingers. It makes for 3-4 wraps around the post. Of course, your finger may vary…..

Earlier, I mentioned a little more wraps because of the tall posts on the UltraLite tuners. I just add 2 fingers for a total of 6 fingers. Makes for 4-5 wraps around the post.

I've never been accused of being too scientific……

 

[gimmeagig]

OK I got it, thanks

 

[JW56789]

The great thing is Fender-shaped-object necks are straight (no scarf joint) so it makes it uncommon to snap off the heads in a fall-down.

The not-so-great thing is Fender-shaped-object necks are straight (no scarf joint) so there's no down angle to anchor the strings in the nut: This is why you see all those string trees, round buttons, trapezes, and those crazy around-the-tuning-peg guides trying to 'grow' some downforce.

So, I do my best to cut the string lengths to where I get a couple wraps or so to where they come off the post right down at the bushing to try and buy some angle to the nut.

And of course, you want those wraps nice and straight and tight to eliminate any tuning issues.

You want this. . . .

Not this:

As always, everything cuts both ways.

 

[tpaul]

I must admit I have never in my life bent a string 90 degrees before cutting it, and I'm having a hard time understanding what difference it makes whether you bend first and then cut, or cut first and then bend.

As I understand it, the string doesn't know the difference either.

 

[Adagietto]

I must admit I have never in my life bent a string 90 degrees before cutting it, and I'm having a hard time understanding what difference it makes whether you bend first and then cut, or cut first and then bend.

As I understand it, the string doesn't know the difference either.

If one is using round-core strings, crimping first is supposed to keep the wrap wire from detaching and sliding on the core wire — which can kill a string. Hex-core strings don't have that issue, as the core bites into the wrap wire. My experience mostly is with round-wound guitar strings, so there may be other factors to consider with bass strings.

 

[dkelley]

windings do not improve tone. higher end electric guitars that have tremolos often have locking tuners... a locking tuner locks the string in the slot and you cut it off right there.... you don't wind it around lots because winding a string around the tuner actually allows whammy use, going down in pitch, to slack the string enough that the windings around the tuner move a spec, causing tuning issues.

Tone is NOT a problem with locking tuners - if anything it is improved.

Also, ask anyone with a steinberger about tone - the tone on a REAL steinberger is monstrous... and there are no windings at all.

 

[BZadlo]

I always fill the post with wraps. Mainly because it creates nice break angles.
I have noticed that strings sometimes die when trimming. This has happened to me numerous times when using long scale strings on short scale basses. Could just be the type of stings I was using though.
Mike Pope used to not trim his strings because he believed he was getting something out of it. I always respected him so I do the same as it doesn't cost anything and actually saves a step.
As for tuning, the extra wraps are only a problem at first. They should stay in tune after the strings settle in.

 

[fretlessman71]

windings do not improve tone. higher end electric guitars that have tremolos often have locking tuners... a locking tuner locks the string in the slot and you cut it off right there.... you don't wind it around lots because winding a string around the tuner actually allows whammy use, going down in pitch, to slack the string enough that the windings around the tuner move a spec, causing tuning issues.

Tone is NOT a problem with locking tuners - if anything it is improved.

Also, ask anyone with a steinberger about tone - the tone on a REAL steinberger is monstrous... and there are no windings at all.

The only place where windings improve tone is when they are used to ensure that the string leaves the post to ensure a proper break angle (sort of like making its own string tree). The wraps otherwise don't matter so long as the string doesn't slip.

 

[gimmeagig]

OK Thank you everybody for such an informative discussion Happy holidays!

 

[GIBrat51]

I have a 74 Jazz bass EMGs w ABM brass bridge. Should be a tone monster but compared to some of my other active J basses it is kind of lifeless. I recycle my D'Addario prosteels in tubes with denatured alcohol.That works on all my other basses. But not so much on the Fender. I have been cutting the strings just long enough so that they don't slip. I put on an brand new set that way a couple of weeks ago. The bass didn't really come to life. I was disappointed.So tonight I put a new set on the 74 Jazz, made sure I didn't twist the strings as I tightened them and did 2 1/2 to 3 windings around the posts. I'm not sure if I'm imagining things but it seems like the bass sounds more lively this way. What do you guys think do more windings have an effect on the way a bass sounds?

Well, some guitar players believe that "more is better"; I've seen every bit of excess string wound around the poor tuner posts on some of their guitars. Particularly acoustic guitars... Not sure if it's some kind of "tone" superstition thing; simple laziness; or, if they're just not allowed around tools... Personally? I'm a retired engineer; I've done the math to figure out how to get 3 winds around all my bass's tuner posts with the strings I like (and written it all down). I bend a 90 in the strings - all kinds, every time - before I cut them, to give me 3/8's of an inch in the tuner's central hole. The strings are long enough to give me half a wind around the post; go through the slot again; and then wind around the post 3 times - with the strings as low on the posts as possible... Then, I check the set up; make sure the witness points are set; and, away we go... Obsessive? Yeah, maybe. But, hey; I told you, I'm an engineer... Still, I can't remember ever having a problem with my strings...

 

[dkelley]

The only place where windings improve tone is when they are used to ensure that the string leaves the post to ensure a proper break angle (sort of like making its own string tree). The wraps otherwise don't matter so long as the string doesn't slip.

yes... absolutely. I should have said that... sorry for the omission. an important point too, that.

 

[dkelley]

I must admit I have never in my life bent a string 90 degrees before cutting it, and I'm having a hard time understanding what difference it makes whether you bend first and then cut, or cut first and then bend.

As I understand it, the string doesn't know the difference either.

dr round core strings explain this on the INSIDE (hidden) of their cardboard packaging.. you have to go looking for it though. and it is true... I've done it before and had dead strings when I didn't crimp first.

 

[dkelley]

I've been measuring the string past the tuner post with 4 fingers. It makes for 3-4 wraps around the post. Of course, your finger may vary…..

Earlier, I mentioned a little more wraps because of the tall posts on the UltraLite tuners. I just add 2 fingers for a total of 6 fingers. Makes for 4-5 wraps around the post.

I've never been accused of being too scientific……

depends on the gauge also... lower thicker strings require more length to wrap around as much. but yea I do a similar measurement... good rule of, well, fingers not thumb.

 

[TyBo]

4 things to consider:

1 - Recycled strings never worked for me, but I use nickels.

2 - The lower the string is on the post, the more pressure on the nut, this can improve the sound...

3 - ... But more windings in the post, more chance the string will get out of tune.

4 - Bend 90º the string before cutting.

I think the best solution is to use tuners with a "flute" post and 2 windings.

Hipshots "Flute":

View attachment 4509089 View attachment 4509090

Yes. #2 seems particularly pertinent here, in terms of windings influencing the sound - "The lower the string is on the post, the more pressure on the nut, this can improve the sound..." So, if strings are wound going downward on the post that will result in a somewhat sharper string angle over the nut, depending on how far down the windings go. Which can have some influence on sound and playing feel. Eric Johnson is said to be able to tell the # of string windings on one of is guitar strings just by the feel of it. True or not, makes a good story ...

 

[pepj]

I've done it this way for over 30 years. Like Billy D Williams said about Colt 45 - it works every time!

Me too, nice neat winds, and enough to be a solid and secure fit.
And I clean strings so i can put them back 4, 5, 6 times. I've don't break strings ..only ever broke 2, and one was my first string change when I didn't use a tuner and simply over tightened the string.

What retires a string 90% plus of the time, ime, is the string just feels horrible and a simple soak in cleaner no longer works. I'll retire the set in that case.

 

[gimmeagig]

I have a tube filled with denatured alcohol for each bass I own. I rotate two sets of strings for about a year then I change them.I use D'addario prosteels.